FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - What is Your Definition of a Kosher Establishment?
Old Nov 28, 2010, 1:01 am
  #38  
badatz
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tlv
Programs: AA Platinum, LY Matmid
Posts: 804
I have been following this long discussion and feel that I have to comment

We clearly have at the start the case of Zvika, who I never heard of before, having never been to Thailand, saying that his Restaurant is Kosher for various reasons (which I will go into later) and Shas12 openly or otherwise supporting Chabad , and then Craz rebuting and attacking him.

The original title of this thread was "what is your definition of a Kosher Establishment" and not "let's attack Chabad". We had a poster attacking Zvika for his new Hashgacha methods and for his "misleading certificate". Did anyone here actually read the certificate? It is not from some chief rabbi of a Negev town but from "Rabbani Tzohar" of which the Negev Rabbi (and I know who he is), is a member.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with "Rabbani Tzohar" let me explain that it is a group of very respected Orthodox Rabbis in Israel, led by the Chief Rabbi of Ramat Gan, Rabbi Yaacov Ariel, who have come together to offer a fresh, and others say challenging perspective to various life cycle events in Israel such as Marriage, Kashrut etc. while running parallel to the established Municipal Rabbanut

It is hard to describe everything that they do but if one is interested it is probably easy enough to find out on Google etc. It is that organization that is putting its name and reputation on the line at Zvika's, not some "unknown Rabbi"

I grew up in the 50's and 60's in Boro Park NY. There were no supervising agencies for restaurants. You ate where you knew the owner. If you trusted HIM you ate there, if not, then no. There was a case of a Deli that had Kosher meat but was open on Shabbat even though the owner and his son were in Shul in the morning but the Orthodox market did not eat there because they didn't trust the owner, not that the meat was not Kosher.

Today because of widespread travel and community development it is not possible to "know the owner" so we must rely on the Kashrut organizatons.
If you trust the OU you eat at their places and don't ask how they supervise etc, the same thing for OK, Star K etc. So if you are familiar with Rabbani Tozher and trust them, then you can eat at Zivka's. I don't think that he is at war with Chabad, but just someone who is trying to make a living and provide a needed service.

As to Chabad I have eaten, davened and even slept at their centers around America and throughout the world. I never saw them as a free soup kitchen and always paid my way either through a fixed price for Shabbat meals, as in Beijing, or by donation in other places. Of course the money is used to cover expenses, both of the food and running the center, and in some cases might not even cover it. But who cares what they call it and how they raise the money to continue their work. They provide something that no one else seems to provide world wide, shuls and Kosher food, and should be encouraged.

I must say that I am unfamiliar with the situation in Florence and whether there is a powerplay by Chabad against local businesses so I cannot comment.

But I do think that we should stop the fighting and bickering and possible Chilul Hashem that has been going on here for the past few days and remember that although everyone is entitled to his own opinion, that does not mean that the other's is wrong

With best wishes for Ahavat Chinam and not Sinat Chinam
badatz is offline