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Old Oct 2, 09, 1:21 am   #1
 
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Ladies, can we have a chat about prostitution?

When recently in AMS I was talking with a young Dutch waitress/student about life in Holland and when the topic of prostitution came up she said she would rather not be a prostitute in much the same way someone might say that they wouldnít want to live on the east coast or that they enjoy being a sole practitioner and are glad that they donít work for a large CPA or law firm. In other words, it seemed to me that she was saying that prostitution was value-neutral and was something she could do if needed, but would prefer not to.

I did not think till afterwards to ask her (and I might have been too shy to ask) if she would have had a problem about her boyfriend going to a prostitute.

It has made me wonder, is there a rank order to infidelity? Is a business transaction with a whore less noxious than a one-night stand which is less emotionally actionable than a long term mistress? And, does it matter if itís your boyfriend as opposed to your husband?

Sadly, as there is no men's forum, I can't have a parallel thread about gigolos.

And no, Iím not preparing a mea culpa for Mrs. Jailer; and yes, I did a search on this forum. Oh, because America is such a puritanical place perhaps you would mention nationality if you are comfortable doing so.
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Old Oct 2, 09, 3:27 am   #2
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I'm an American.

I think there is a rank order to infidelity. I wouldn't like it but could probably forgive (depending on the overall status and quality of the relationship) a one night stand or a single visit to a prostitute. I would have much more of an issue if it were more than a single time and also would depend on how I found out about it. Another big concern would be health and that's why a whore would scare me more than a one night stand. I would have a much harder time accepting or forgiving a relationship.

If it were a boyfriend I would probably be less willing to move the relationship forward. A husband, you've both made promises and a committement to each other so I would be more willing to work through it.

That said, I'm not married and luckily haven't had to deal with this issue with a boyfriend (fingers crossed!)
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Old Oct 2, 09, 3:15 pm   #3
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My humble american opinion:

The business transaction in itself is less noxious than the other two. And if the business transaction were ok'ed in advance by me (which believe it or not would be possible under some very specific and rare circumstances) I wouldn't consider it infidelity.

However, it would be a different if the need to outsource became a habit or a detriment to the finances. And I'd be more accepting of it from a husband than a boyfriend.

One night stand is definitely less forgivable.

Mistress = buhbyenow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhead
Another big concern would be health and that's why a whore would scare me more than a one night stand.
Being that sex is how a whore makes her living, I would expect that unless she's a crack addict streetwalker, she will be more careful about health concerns than someone in a "I got drunk and had a one night stand" situation.
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Old Oct 2, 09, 7:13 pm   #4
 
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I'm an American.

I think there is a rank order to infidelity. I wouldn't like it but could probably forgive (depending on the overall status and quality of the relationship) a one night stand or a single visit to a prostitute. I would have much more of an issue if it were more than a single time and also would depend on how I found out about it. Another big concern would be health and that's why a whore would scare me more than a one night stand. I would have a much harder time accepting or forgiving a relationship.

If it were a boyfriend I would probably be less willing to move the relationship forward. A husband, you've both made promises and a committement to each other so I would be more willing to work through it.

That said, I'm not married and luckily haven't had to deal with this issue with a boyfriend (fingers crossed!)
I totally agree with absolutely everything Redhead said in her post. If I found out about some type of relationship mr b1513 was having he would be history. A one nighter with a prostitute, I suppose, I could forgive but wouldn't be happy about and I'm sure I'd make his life miserable for some time. With a relationship there's some type of emotional commitment there and that would be more important than the sex in my mind. The trust would be gone.

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Old Oct 3, 09, 5:58 pm   #5
 
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It's a deal-breaker. No ifs, ands, or buts. Final.
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Old Oct 4, 09, 5:53 am   #6
 
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American--and married for a loooong time. It is the emotional intimacy that counts rather than the physical. I could forgive -but would take as a symptom of problems --a one time or such event. I would deeply question any longer tme relationship. Honestly, I don't know that it would be unforgivablel--I have learned during my long marriage that you go through a number of stages and that some of them are difficult.
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Old Oct 4, 09, 9:14 am   #7
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Originally Posted by Jailer View Post
When recently in AMS I was talking with a young Dutch waitress/student about life in Holland and when the topic of prostitution came up she said she would rather not be a prostitute in much the same way someone might say that they wouldnít want to live on the east coast or that they enjoy being a sole practitioner and are glad that they donít work for a large CPA or law firm. In other words, it seemed to me that she was saying that prostitution was value-neutral and was something she could do if needed, but would prefer not to.
Probably because it is a licensed profession in the Netherlands, & not the taboo that it is in the US.

And because it is, they go through weekly health checks for sexual diseases.

So in one respect a licensed whore might be safer than the one-night stands some are saying would be ok, given that one-night stands probably aren't doing the whole health check thing, & if they're doing a 1-nighter w/ someone's hubby, fiance or boyfriend, they could be doing it w/ others as well

Still think this is a topic for Omni. Cheers.
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Old Oct 4, 09, 11:17 am   #8
 
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....Still think this is a topic for Omni. Cheers.
According to the letter of FT law, I don’t disagree with you Sharon. But here in what must be the most polite of FT venues, all responses have been on point and so while size may matter in some things, I have appreciated the quality over quanity approach in this forum as opposed to what would be expected in OMNI.

Stutter-stepping slightly, I am always skeptical of trying to legislate morality. It is generally a bad use of resources, often further victimizes victims (in this case many of the women), and undermines respect for the law since enforcement is so haphazard. FWIW, I have partaken in the same amount of hooker-services in places where it is legal and places where it is illegal.

Sadly, most of our female clients who have been prostitutes were abused (read: rape, incest, child abuse) and may be prostituting themselves to get money for drugs (read, maybe,: self-medicate). And, criminalizing johns likely does little societal good. Where legal, woman control their bodies more and are less vulnerable to pimps, etc. Plus, there are tax and health implications to legalization. However, I would want to be able to walk down the Las Vegas strip with my family w/out being hit on by street walkers.

That said, I am starting to see inmates, and I expect more, who have been prosecuted for crossing international borders to have sex with minors. I have long said that some branch of the United Nations, perhaps the World Health Organization, might lobby to have a pedophile tax put on plane tickets of countries that do not protect their children. Perhaps this stance would put me in the minority of FT-ers, but a, say, $300 excise tax to go to, say, Cambodia would raise awareness of the problem, cause some/many people to divert their travel and cause the non-compliant country to re-think its practices. The money could be used to educate/rescue children.
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Last edited by Jailer; Oct 4, 09 at 11:31 am.
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Old Oct 4, 09, 4:50 pm   #9
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Originally Posted by Jailer View Post
It has made me wonder, is there a rank order to infidelity?
I don't think there is.

Quote:
Is a business transaction with a whore less noxious than a one-night stand which is less emotionally actionable than a long term mistress?
Any infidelity is noxious. I have to wonder if a person is purposely looking the other way if his/her spouse is having a long-term affair.

Quote:
And, does it matter if it’s your boyfriend as opposed to your husband?
Yes it does matter. He is a boyfriend, without any legal ties whatsoever to her. He didn't take an oath to be her husband, to love, honor and cherish her. She is free to get the hell out of there if her boyfriend is a cheat. Not as easy (and a hell of a lot more expensive) if they were married. The girlfriend would be devastated but free to do as she liked.

Also a woman who finds out that her boyfriend is a cheat is FORTUNATE to find this out before she were married to him, no matter how shocking and hurtful this new reality is. That's why I think men and women should take their time before getting married. They really need to see what kind of people they are ending up with. A cheat can't hide it for too long.

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Oh, because America is such a puritanical place perhaps you would mention nationality if you are comfortable doing so.
Is that supposed to be a slur? Because if it is, you didn't succeed. You want puritanical? Try an Islamic country in which the women cover themselves head to toe in burkas, their choice or not. I think the US today is quite a secular nation.

I'm a New Yorker.
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Last edited by Analise; Oct 4, 09 at 4:56 pm.
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Old Oct 4, 09, 4:53 pm   #10
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Isn't this a topic for Omni rather than the Women's forum?

Cheers.
This thread has nothing to do with travel so I have to wonder how long this will stay here. Just because OMNI can be uncivilized, does this mean we turn the Women's forum into a safe free-for-all? That I guess is for the moderators to decide. Should our own politeness and respect for others mean that we have to widen our forum to include non-female-related travel topics?

That all said, I think it's an interesting topic!
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Old Oct 7, 09, 1:28 pm   #11
 
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Somewhat applicable to the topic on hand, sex trade workers are challenging the constitutionality of Canada's prostition laws right now.

http://www.canada.com/trade+workers+...225/story.html

I really hope they win. Our laws are antiquated and misogynistic at best, and outright dangerous for the sex trade workers.
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Old Oct 7, 09, 4:46 pm   #12
 
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Historically, women had VERY limited options to provide for themselves if they became widowed, outlived their families or fled their childhood homes ~ and in many places on this planet (to add a 'travel' angle ) the circumstances for women are similar to the historical roots of prostitution. There was a market for their services then, all through history and there still is; and just like any other commodity if you remove the demand you diminish the stakeholders.

Choose to be a prostitute? I don't think a person chooses it, but it's a pretty easy occupation to get into if your options are limited.

Relationship deal breaker? Prostitute - probably not, because of the difference between sex and love. I've felt the biological urge and nothing else (I'm widowed and not in a relationship); ONS - yup, shows a supreme lack of self-control and violates trust; Mistress - start dividing your assets, hunny...

Canadian, if that matters.
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Old Oct 7, 09, 6:19 pm   #13
 
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Historically, women had VERY limited options to provide for themselves if they became widowed, outlived their families or fled their childhood homes ~ and in many places on this planet (to add a 'travel' angle ) the circumstances for women are similar to the historical roots of prostitution. There was a market for their services then, all through history and there still is; and just like any other commodity if you remove the demand you diminish the stakeholders....

Your comment made me flash on the movie, Dangerous Beauty, about maybe the most powerful (non-royal) women of her time, Veronica Franco (1546-1591)…poet, wit, and courtesan to the rich and famous….Left without a dowry, she was too poor to re-marry but had much influence until—if the movie is to be believed—moral outrage in the wake of the Black Death put the courtesan culture out of business.

And since this thread remains in “Women Only”, here’s some fashion trivia: I believe that high heel shoes were first made popular in Venice, where they were needed so that women could keep their hems dry and free of the filth thrown into the canals.
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Last edited by Jailer; Oct 7, 09 at 7:07 pm.
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Old Oct 7, 09, 7:03 pm   #14
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Originally Posted by Analise View Post
This thread has nothing to do with travel so I have to wonder how long this will stay here. Just because OMNI can be uncivilized, does this mean we turn the Women's forum into a safe free-for-all? That I guess is for the moderators to decide. Should our own politeness and respect for others mean that we have to widen our forum to include non-female-related travel topics?

That all said, I think it's an interesting topic!
I think its an interesting topic too... and pertinent especially to women who travel or who have partners who travel .. particularly to countries where it is either legal, more socially acceptable, or even a social norm.

At least as on topic as Merrell shoes

or nails

or Coldwater Creek coupons

or any of the other stuff we talk about in here

Last edited by missydarlin; Oct 7, 09 at 7:28 pm.
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Old Oct 7, 09, 7:39 pm   #15
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I think its an interesting topic too... and pertinent especially to women who travel or who have partners who travel .. particularly to countries where it is either legal, more socially acceptable, or even a social norm.

At least as on topic as Merrell shoes

or nails

or Coldwater Creek coupons

or any of the other stuff we talk about in here
Yup on all counts!
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