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Old Aug 13, 2016, 1:17 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: cur
(C)UR('S) GUIDE TO EC261 COMPENSATION AND WS(( )) = info needs to be filled in and/or fact checked

Applicability of EC261
EC261 bases compensation on multiple variables; distance, origin+destination, and length of delay. Ws flights fall into one category: ex-EU and greater than 3,500km. Therefore EC261 applies to any WS flight to Canada departing from an EU member state such as LGW

Reasons for claim
-Denied boarding (due to overselling, down-gauge, or error on part of airline)
-Cancellation that leads to you arriving to your destination late (see delay)
-Delay longer than 3 hours
Delay is measured as the difference between scheduled arrival time and the time the cabin door is opened after arriving at the gate

What you are entitled during/the carrier's duty of care
-For WS delays from EU over two hours "passengers must in every case be offered free meals and refreshments plus two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails"
-For delays longer than 5 hours, "passengers may opt for reimbursement of the full cost of the ticket together with, when relevant, a return flight to the first point of departure."
(source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...URISERV:l24173 )

What you are entitled after
-Denied boarding: 600euro plus care from the airline if you must overnight
-Cancellation of your original flight leading to a delay longer than 4 hours: see delay
-Cancellation of your original flight leading to a re-route leading to delay more than 1 hour and less than 4 hours: ((50 percent of the delay compensation?))
-Delay:
--3-4 hours: 300euro
--4+ hours: 600euro

Exception for cash compensation: extraordinary circumstances
If the following directly caused your denied boarding, cancellation, and/or delay, it is considered an extraordinary circumstance and therefore exempts the carrier from compensation
-Terrywrism
-Security risks
-Extreme weather such as thunder storms halting ground operations or volcanic ash (see faq)
-Civil unrest
-Industrial action
-Hidden manufacturer defects

What is not an extraordinary circumstance?
-Mechanical issues except those caused by hidden manufacturer defects or other extraordinary circumstances
-Airline short staffing or crews timing out due to crew duty hour regulations
-Denied boarding due to an oversell or down-gauge
-Weather at down-line stations affecting your (later) flight (see faq)

Where to contact and how
thewishy had success emailing FacilitationTeam [[at]] westjet period com

For every event and irregardless of number of pax you should submit one (1) single piece of written correspondence that is lucid, factual, and succinct. Keep it short and don't get emo. It must state your claim, state what you are entitled/what you are claiming, and why you are entitled (ie: the EC261 regulation). You must clearly imply or explain that you will not accept anything less than what you are entitled, unless, of course, you want to accept less?

Submitting copies of your ticket(s) (containing e ticket number), reservation, and boarding pass(es) is not compulsory. Failing to provide proof of your ticket, res, and/or boarding pass does not invalidate your claim for compensation.

Use this form letter or write something close to it. Note the succinctness
Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing regarding flight [flight number] on [date] from [departure airport] to [arrival airport] with the scheduled departure time of [scheduled departure time].

My booking reference is [booking or reservation reference if available]. This flight arrived [number of hours] hours late at [airport] (or) This flight was cancelled and I arrived late on [time and date of arrival].

The passengers in the party were [names of party].

The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA, confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this delayed flight.

My scheduled flight length was [use http://gc.kls2.com/], therefore I am seeking (300€, 400€) per delayed passenger in my party. The total compensation sought is [ ].

I look forward to hearing from you and would welcome a response in 14 days.

love,

[name]
(source: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/h...-261-2004.html)
Processing time
30-60 calendar days, from when you send your email to receiving the check in the mail. This is very fast by ec261 standards.

How late can I apply for compensation/statute of limitations?
Statute of limitations in the UK is six (6) years

Appeals
If ws rejects your first or second or xth attempt:
-they could be right and you are wrong
-you could be in this 3-4 hour delay grey area (see "What you are entitled after" -Delays), or;
-you are not asserting your claim properly. See the faq below.

However if you are positive that you are entitled compensation and your claims were properly submitted, you can appeal to the UK CAA's Pax Advice and Complaints Tribunal (PACT).
https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Res...-CAA-can-help/

Further reading
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...4R0261&from=EN
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/h...-261-2004.html

FA-Q:
Q: Are weather delays down line that cause late inbound aircraft actually extraordinary circumstances and therefore a legitimate cause ws to deny my claim?
eg: Your lgw-yvr flight is delayed 4h10m solely because that plane was held up by thunderstorms in yyz.

No: this is not extraordinary circumstances. The airline has the obligation to get you to your destination at the scheduled time and delays isolated from your departure and arrival airport are not considered extraordinary. ((iirc there was a court case that wasn't Sturgeon that re-affirmed this, anyone know?))

Q: I see more value in receiving ws flight credit than fungible, liquid cash. What amounts in ws flight credit have others reported in lieu of the 300/pax or 600/pax euro cash compensation?
((there are reports on this thread of what people got going this route))

Q: After my first request, ws is offering me less than what I am entitled citing extraordinary circumstances. I am absolutely positive this is not the case. What do I do?
Airlines typically reject your claim and/or offer you garbage in the form of a flight credit worth significantly less than the cash amount you are entitled. This tends to happen to those who did not submit a claim like a pro (ie: long winded letter, asking for compensation instead of telling you are owed compensation, general non-assertiveness). Avoid using passive phrases like "are you/is your company willing" or "could you/your company". This suggests that you do not realize that you are entitled compensation, giving the carrier an out. Instead use assertive phrases like "I expect" or "I am entitled" or "therefore I am seeking" in order to make clear that you understand your rights. Just persist, stick to your guns, and don't take it personal if you get rejected.

Q: Is there a direct contact? I'm not feeling this web-form complaints thing
While many have used the web form and have got satisfaction, at least one user used FacilitationTeam [[at]] westjet period com and got satisfaction.
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Old Sep 8, 2016, 12:32 pm
  #151  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Originally Posted by EstWst
Update, WestJet continues to deny my rightful compensation.

In their most recent email they claim EU241 is based on scheduled departure time versus actual departure time. In my case this would be a delay of 3:46.

However, EU241 as we all know is based on scheduled arrival time versus actual arrival time - putting my delay at 4:10.

I'm fairly disappointed that they would attempt to trick me on the EU241 rules.
May help if you claim for EU261
aidy is offline  
Old Sep 10, 2016, 10:48 am
  #152  
 
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WS27 has just diverted to KEF
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Old Sep 10, 2016, 11:43 am
  #153  
 
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Originally Posted by Tiger_lily
WS27 has just diverted to KEF
A passenger tells me the rumour around KEF is they are stuck there until Monday.

EDIT: WS9998 737 ferry YYZ-KEF was scheduled almost immediately, but then cancelled. Word is two 737 will be sent from YYZ, presumeably returning passengers to Eastern Canada, I don't think 737 can fly KEF-YEG.

Last edited by mountainboy; Sep 10, 2016 at 2:01 pm
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Old Sep 10, 2016, 6:26 pm
  #154  
 
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Originally Posted by mountainboy
A passenger tells me the rumour around KEF is they are stuck there until Monday.

EDIT: WS9998 737 ferry YYZ-KEF was scheduled almost immediately, but then cancelled. Word is two 737 will be sent from YYZ, presumeably returning passengers to Eastern Canada, I don't think 737 can fly KEF-YEG.
Likely with a short refuel stop along the way.
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Old Sep 11, 2016, 4:38 am
  #155  
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Tracking site shows 2 - 737 are now at KEF and apparently will fly n/s to YEG and YYC later today. Long flights but supposedly non-stop!
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Old Sep 11, 2016, 9:11 pm
  #156  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
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Who woulda thunk high-cycle, passed-over, aging frames would cause grief for this house league airline?

Garsh?!? Always when you least expect it

And, Where's the delusioal farm team Manager? - they guy who thinks he controls the TATL Market ex Canada these days? Last he spoke, he was deep ion talks with A and B about future growth plans at WS.
Now might be a swell time to close that big deal for shiny new widebody jets you've been hilariously referring to.

. . . sure GS is kicking the tires of new jets, but will end up with 2nd (or 3rd) hand 330s
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Old Sep 11, 2016, 10:26 pm
  #157  
 
Join Date: May 2015
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Originally Posted by CloudsBelow
Who woulda thunk high-cycle, passed-over, aging frames would cause grief for this house league airline?

Garsh?!? Always when you least expect it

And, Where's the delusioal farm team Manager? - they guy who thinks he controls the TATL Market ex Canada these days? Last he spoke, he was deep ion talks with A and B about future growth plans at WS.
Now might be a swell time to close that big deal for shiny new widebody jets you've been hilariously referring to.

. . . sure GS is kicking the tires of new jets, but will end up with 2nd (or 3rd) hand 330s
I don't believe I am defending WestJet, but I am. For the record given the choice of Air Canada or WestJet, I usually do AC and the odd WestJet if the AC schedule is crap.

Yes, it was silly of them to buy these old "Refurbished like new by Boeing" jets. It is sill of them to operate them with little in the way of spares. It is also silly of them to not include a crappy frozen TV dinner meal.

That said, I think Gregg Saretsky is likely pretty competent. Given he was CEO of Canadian Airlines in the past and an executive at Alaska he should know what he is doing and what it takes to build a customer experience focused airline.

Canadian had great customer service. Alaska is my favourite US airline. If WestJet wants to grow up (and it looks like they do), then they need to do the silly frozen dinner thing in economy, join Skyteam and get new widebodys (even used A330 would be ok). Given how Air Canada is stuffing economy passengers into the 777 and 787, the A330 with wider seats would be a step up.
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Old Sep 19, 2016, 6:46 pm
  #158  
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Friends came back from a flight LGW-YEG 17Sep. that was subbed out for an Omni 767 and weren't happy at all say it was dirty and the crew disinterested. They paid for advance seat assignment and are going to ask WJ for it back as they felt they didn't get what was paid for.
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Old Sep 22, 2016, 10:43 am
  #159  
cur
 
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Originally Posted by EstWst
Update, WestJet continues to deny my rightful compensation.

In their most recent email they claim EU241 is based on scheduled departure time versus actual departure time. In my case this would be a delay of 3:46.

However, EU241 as we all know is based on scheduled arrival time versus actual arrival time - putting my delay at 4:10.

I'm fairly disappointed that they would attempt to trick me on the EU241 rules.
resubmit your claim citing arrival delay.

then if denied again you can go to the uk caa over this.

i think ws is more inept than unscrupulous but hey we never know.

Originally Posted by Tiger_lily
WS27 has just diverted to KEF
LOL
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Old Sep 22, 2016, 11:55 pm
  #160  
 
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I'm flying from LGW next week. Other than the prayers, I think it will be a nice opportunity to fairly review the product.
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Old Sep 23, 2016, 1:03 pm
  #161  
 
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Originally Posted by keitherson
I'm flying from LGW next week. Other than the prayers, I think it will be a nice opportunity to fairly review the product.
Try to upgrade right at 24 hours. Well worth the price.
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Old Sep 25, 2016, 11:16 am
  #162  
 
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Originally Posted by CanuckFlyHigh
Try to upgrade right at 24 hours. Well worth the price.
I agree. Best $200 I've spent on any airline.
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Old Sep 25, 2016, 12:03 pm
  #163  
 
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Don't forget the west-bound legs from LGW will also require an additional Ł73 (~$125) UK APD tax on top of the upgrade cost.
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Old Oct 2, 2016, 12:43 pm
  #164  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
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http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/westjet-cancellation-passengers-stranded-toronto-london-gatwick-1.3788113

This being said, my family and I experienced an enjoyable flight from yyc-lgw last Thursday. There was a slight delay in arrival, due to separate reasons at either end that were well out of WS's control.
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Old Oct 16, 2016, 11:38 am
  #165  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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I used the FacilitationTeam [[at]] westjet period com email address for my claim. No automatic "We're looking into it" response, but after 21 days I got a "What currency would you like your cheque in" question, 10 days later an "Cheque raised" email, and 10 days after that I've got a cheque for Equiv €300.
All relatively painless

Steve

Last edited by thewishy; Oct 31, 2016 at 12:06 pm
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