WS announces Canada to London-Gatwick

Old Jun 18, 2015, 8:30 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Iam787
I'd be interested to hear why? YEG already his direct on AC, and Icelandair has excellent connections and timing to the UK and Europe, and KLM also recently started to AMS. The market in YEG is fairly tight with the amount of competition and smaller population area, so I would be surprised to see WestJet go to YEG.
Yes, YEG has AC service for now but it's dropped to seasonal and could see it being dropped altogether so WS timing might be good to pick up a LON route to replace AC. Also YEG hasn't had a nonstop summer charter to UK for a number of years so wouldn't face competition on that front. There is enough demand that I think WS could make it work with 1 -2 flights per week.

Edmonton is after all the 6th largest metro market in Canada and not far behind Calgary at #5 though yes, I know there much more corp. travel with the southern cities HQ's in the energy sector.

BTW I haven't heard where WS is acquiring it's 767-300ERW from so does anyone know?
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Old Jun 18, 2015, 8:36 pm
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There are at least 4 B763s coming from Qantas via Boeing. If there are more on order, I'm not sure, and from where those would come from, I don't know either.
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Old Jun 18, 2015, 9:05 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by YYCguy
There are at least 4 B763s coming from Qantas via Boeing. If there are more on order, I'm not sure, and from where those would come from, I don't know either.
I take it these will be 763s with RR engines (assuming it matters to WS if there is engine commonality)? They're pretty rare birds as I believe only a handful of airlines every ordered those (QF, BA, NZ?)
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Old Jun 18, 2015, 11:27 pm
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach
I take it these will be 763s with RR engines (assuming it matters to WS if there is engine commonality)? They're pretty rare birds as I believe only a handful of airlines every ordered those (QF, BA, NZ?)
No, all four of the 767-300ER(WL) are ex-Qantas aircraft fitted with GE CF6-80C2B6 engines. The aircraft all have the same configuration, the only major changes are the addition of winglets, a seat configuration that was 30C/224Y changed to 24W/238Y (using the existing seats with new leather) and addition of the Panasonic IFEC system.
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Old Jun 21, 2015, 7:51 pm
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Originally Posted by fairviewroad
A headline grabbing gimmick, of course, would be a YXU-LGW flight. And that might actually work, though not sure if YXU could handle a fully loaded 767.
Certainly facility wise, YXU can handle a 767 (we used to get large charter flights in long before we even had jet bridges). Not sure business wise, we could support more than once a week. I know YXU management has long wished for UK service and talk like it's a very good possibility.
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Old Jun 24, 2015, 4:31 pm
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Though I hate to say it, I'm a bit doubtful that the flight will be from Calgary -- it's awfully competitive, with Transat, BA, and AC all flying it. Crossing my fingers though
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Old Jun 25, 2015, 7:21 am
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Originally Posted by Cheese
Though I hate to say it, I'm a bit doubtful that the flight will be from Calgary -- it's awfully competitive, with Transat, BA, and AC all flying it. Crossing my fingers though
Competitive, yes. But that simply proves demand. Besides, YYC has a ton of connecting feeder traffic from all over western Canada.

Makes sense to me, but one can make a strong argument for many other airports too. Guess we'll see.
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Old Jun 26, 2015, 12:47 pm
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Originally Posted by Cheese
Though I hate to say it, I'm a bit doubtful that the flight will be from Calgary -- it's awfully competitive, with Transat, BA, and AC all flying it. Crossing my fingers though

YYC-YVR was pretty competitive in 1996 with both AC and CP operating 15x daily n/s flights each. WJ managed to carve out a pretty good business out of that.

WJ will have close to 140 737's and Q400's feeding their network from points in Canada and even the US by the time the first flight is operated.

Transat has zilch feed. They rely solely on O&D traffic. It was the same with all the other charter type airlines that have come and gone. No feed or uneconomic double drops.

I'm not sure if WJ will continue to codeshare with BA once the flights begin.

There is the school of thought that BA might be of the mind that, strategically, "the enemy of mine enemy is my friend".

If that is not the case, BA will no longer get domestic Cdn feed at their gateways, unless they are prepared to pay a healthy dollar for it.

WJA has always done thing a little differently and I would expect to see some, but not all, of the same when gateways are announced. In the meantime, the competition will chase ghosts and degenerate their yields and route profitability.

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Old Jun 28, 2015, 9:57 am
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Originally Posted by Cheese
Though I hate to say it, I'm a bit doubtful that the flight will be from Calgary -- it's awfully competitive, with Transat, BA, and AC all flying it. Crossing my fingers though
I have high confidence there will be YYC-LGW flight on WS, however it's almost guaranteed to be only 3-4 times per week. WS will be going directly after air TransAt market and will be stimulating demand through package tours and lots of advertising.

YEG is rumoured to be in line for 1-3 weekly frequencies. There is also a possibility WS would enter the highly competitive YYZ-LGW market with a few weekly frequencies.
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Old Jun 29, 2015, 8:24 am
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I can confirm from a high up at WJ that YEG is getting the service for sure.
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Old Jun 29, 2015, 9:45 am
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WS should do very well out of YEG...
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Old Jun 29, 2015, 10:52 am
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Brilliant on so many levels...

It's the most central location for feed from the west coast, central BC, all of Alberta and Saskatchewan. It will generate all kinds of "domestic portions of international journey" traffic that WJ has not had the opportunity to tap that is a significant reason why network airlines typically report higher l/f's, especially during periods of high demand.

It puts Icelandair on notice that the free ride comes to an end, and remember, WJ has Cdn domestic feed out of the yang yang into YEG and can/has developed partnerships in Europe. Icelandair has no feed at the Cdn end of the pipeline. They need O&D traffic and will have to generate it solely on price. That will only succeed if they have the lowest unit costs, which, when operating 757 vs 767 equipment together with their labor costs, is unlikely to be the case.

It will force high cost Air Canada mainline to have to be very competitive on pricing to the UK and beyond from ALL of Western Canada which is not difficult to do, but very difficult to do profitably.

I suppose they could end up Rouging all UK service from western Canada to LHR to stay price competitive at the low end they now seem to be completely obsessed with, but that won't do much for the premium passengers who pay the freight and who underwrite much higher cost mainline route profitability, especially during the summer when the sun is shining.

A lot of hay has to be made in the summer months to underwrite all but about 6 weeks from mid October thru the end of April. A bad harvest in the summer causes all kinds of problems in the winter.

Premium traffic, who obsessively resist any service that has them having to interface with budget travelers at any level will move over to BA, LH. or KLM for their Western Canada to the UK and beyond premium service.

It will be very interesting to watch this all unfold.

Last edited by HangTen; Jun 29, 2015 at 10:59 am
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 1:27 am
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Originally Posted by CanuckFlyHigh
I can confirm from a high up at WJ that YEG is getting the service for sure.
After flying through YEG this week there is no doubt in my mind that YEG will get the service. World-class airport after all the renovations. It wouldn't be all for nothing.

Market-wise it makes sense, too.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 1:56 pm
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Originally Posted by HangTen
It puts Icelandair on notice that the free ride comes to an end, and remember, WJ has Cdn domestic feed out of the yang yang into YEG and can/has developed partnerships in Europe. Icelandair has no feed at the Cdn end of the pipeline. They need O&D traffic and will have to generate it solely on price. That will only succeed if they have the lowest unit costs, which, when operating 757 vs 767 equipment together with their labor costs, is unlikely to be the case.
Not sure why you think this would put Icelandair on "notice". Gatwick is 1 of 20+ destinations in Europe that Icelandair serves. It probably accounts for <5% of all pax flying on their flights. For everyone who doesn't want to go to London, people in YEG would be smart to fly Icelandair vs. AC or WestJet to connect in London.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:03 pm
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Originally Posted by HangTen
It puts Icelandair on notice that the free ride comes to an end, and remember, WJ has Cdn domestic feed out of the yang yang into YEG and can/has developed partnerships in Europe. Icelandair has no feed at the Cdn end of the pipeline. They need O&D traffic and will have to generate it solely on price. That will only succeed if they have the lowest unit costs, which, when operating 757 vs 767 equipment together with their labor costs, is unlikely to be the case.
Um.. Icelandair has never depended on O&D traffic. Look at their network and their equipment. A majority of fliers are connecting through KEF and the 757s have one of the lowest operating costs among aircraft. Their business model is more akin to COPA than any kind of premium airline.
I suppose they could end up Rouging all UK service from western Canada to LHR to stay price competitive at the low end they now seem to be completely obsessed with, but that won't do much for the premium passengers who pay the freight and who underwrite much higher cost mainline route profitability, especially during the summer when the sun is shining.
Exactly: rouge is how they will stay competitive. While yes "premium passengers" will suffer and move away, AC has done the cost-benefit analysis and their numbers are few and far, especially outside of Toronto. FT has always overstated the role of leisure premium traffic. But the majority of people are buying based on the lowest price. Most high-value airline routes are decided by corporate contracts and business fliers, not premium economy fliers.
Premium traffic, who obsessively resist any service that has them having to interface with budget travelers at any level will move over to BA, LH. or KLM for their Western Canada to the UK and beyond premium service.

It will be very interesting to watch this all unfold.
This is a little bit insulting to "budget travelers", AKA the majority of travelers and the majority of the world. We can't all be 1%. You're still flying commercial.

And look at any BA/LH/KL configuration flying into Canada and you tell me that we're a "premium market"
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