Westjet leases B757 for Alberta to Hawaii Flts
Dec 21, 2010, 8:51 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,875
Westjet leases B757 for Alberta to Hawaii Flts
Dec 21, 2010, 9:18 am
#2
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 980
So it is finalized. We'd heard rumblings about it for a couple of months but wasn't sure if it was really going to come to reality. I'm surprised though to read in the article that there is only one aircraft. I think there were originally supposed to be 3 in the plan, one for the YYC-Hawaii flights, one for the YEG-Hawaii flights and one as a mechanical spare.
Does anybody know what the seating configuration of this particular tail is (business + economy or all economy, seat pitch, etc)?
Does anybody know what the seating configuration of this particular tail is (business + economy or all economy, seat pitch, etc)?
Dec 21, 2010, 9:42 am
#3
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: YYC
Posts: 1,876
http://www.flynaa.com/fleetinformation.aspx
The seat map shows their 757 with the premium seats however WestJet is leasing the all economy version for which there is no seat map on North American Airlines website
The seat map shows their 757 with the premium seats however WestJet is leasing the all economy version for which there is no seat map on North American Airlines website
Dec 21, 2010, 11:20 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,875
http://www.flynaa.com/fleetinformation.aspx
The seat map shows their 757 with the premium seats however WestJet is leasing the all economy version for which there is no seat map on North American Airlines website
The seat map shows their 757 with the premium seats however WestJet is leasing the all economy version for which there is no seat map on North American Airlines website
Dec 21, 2010, 11:29 am
#5
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: PHX/SFO/LAX
Programs: AA-EXP (1.7MM), BA-Slvr, HH-Diamond
Posts: 7,784
Good news sort of...
I don't see these flights as being cheap as WS has to pay for NA labor and MX. I'd really be interested to see the fares when they're published.
I am sure this will be one of NA's all coach aircraft. WS has no current process to sell J seats outside of counter upgrades.
Unless WS' has the seating readjusted(I doubt since its a wet-lease), the pitch is set at a tight 31 inches. Seats 1ABC have 34 inch pitch with a cutout for your feet. Seats 1DEF have no cutout.
Will be hard to deliver the WS experience without the PTV's and tight seat pitch.
Unless WS' has the seating readjusted(I doubt since its a wet-lease), the pitch is set at a tight 31 inches. Seats 1ABC have 34 inch pitch with a cutout for your feet. Seats 1DEF have no cutout.
A WestJet service ambassador will be on board each 757-200 flight to ensure that the WestJet guest experience is consistently delivered to the airline's standards and expectations.
Dec 21, 2010, 12:55 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYC
Programs: AC Basic, UA MP Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, SPG Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 3,008
The aircraft will be specifically configured for Westjet's requirements, so looking at the seat maps of previous NA instances will be of no use.
Seat reconfiguration is a specialty for NA as they handle everything charter from sun destinations to sports teams, military, and presidential candidates. It will take about 2 days for the seat reconfiguration to be complete.
As for pitch, 32 inches will be the minimum and many seats could be 1-2 inches more. UA fits 182 pax in their 752s with a business class cabin 2X2. Just putting 3X3 economy seats into a UA configuration would yield 194 seats, or 193 seats for sale and 1 seat for WS Ambassador. This still allows for front cabin of 34 inch pitch assuming there is no increase in storage lockers (the galley's and lavs cannot be easily moved, so the only option is to add or subtract closets).
Seat reconfiguration is a specialty for NA as they handle everything charter from sun destinations to sports teams, military, and presidential candidates. It will take about 2 days for the seat reconfiguration to be complete.
As for pitch, 32 inches will be the minimum and many seats could be 1-2 inches more. UA fits 182 pax in their 752s with a business class cabin 2X2. Just putting 3X3 economy seats into a UA configuration would yield 194 seats, or 193 seats for sale and 1 seat for WS Ambassador. This still allows for front cabin of 34 inch pitch assuming there is no increase in storage lockers (the galley's and lavs cannot be easily moved, so the only option is to add or subtract closets).
Dec 21, 2010, 1:33 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYC
Programs: AC Basic, UA MP Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, SPG Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 3,008
Another question, why no flight dates, times and pricing to go along with the announcement???
The quick answer is beacuse the flights are still subject to gov't approval (for NA to operate the flights on behalf of WS).
But this raises some interesting questions: How much business will Westjet lose over the Christmas Holiday's because they will not be able to offer product for sale. AC will still be the only game in town for AB to HNL/OGG during this heavy leisure booking period. Westjet could be waiting until mid Janaury unitl Transport gets around to approving NA for the flights.
Flight times ex YYC will be another prickly subject for Westjet. They will want wingtip to wingtip service with AC and this will rile up US CBP. US CBP has been threatening to not allow preclearence for additional flights that operate at peak times. Pre-clearing a 763, 752 and others at 11am departure time could be too much for them. If so then WS would not be able to get preclearing or they would have to select another time slot for the HNL/OGG departures.
The quick answer is beacuse the flights are still subject to gov't approval (for NA to operate the flights on behalf of WS).
But this raises some interesting questions: How much business will Westjet lose over the Christmas Holiday's because they will not be able to offer product for sale. AC will still be the only game in town for AB to HNL/OGG during this heavy leisure booking period. Westjet could be waiting until mid Janaury unitl Transport gets around to approving NA for the flights.
Flight times ex YYC will be another prickly subject for Westjet. They will want wingtip to wingtip service with AC and this will rile up US CBP. US CBP has been threatening to not allow preclearence for additional flights that operate at peak times. Pre-clearing a 763, 752 and others at 11am departure time could be too much for them. If so then WS would not be able to get preclearing or they would have to select another time slot for the HNL/OGG departures.
Dec 21, 2010, 2:23 pm
#9
Join Date: Dec 2005
Programs: CO Gold, UA Premier Exec
Posts: 1,539
well the mixed class 757 holds 196 people so if it was all Y there would be alot more seating unless they are giving a very generous seat pitch which I doubt. The article says it will hold 193 guests so they are probably blocking seats for the westjet ambassadors on board. So they will either A sell the bigger seats up front for more or they will only be available for a higher fee for advance seat selection.
Dec 21, 2010, 6:26 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 797
This looks to me as if it is a bandaid solution. They should be thinking about a longer term plan because the demand for non-stop from Alberta to Hawaii isn't going to stop in 2011 or 2012.
Why make North American Airlines rich operating aircraft that aren't consistent with the Westjet product when they could do the same as Air Canada did with Sky Regional.
They should backstop an established operator to get a 2-3 aircraft leased 757/767 operation up and running and then bring it in house in five years with a pre-determined seniority formula and then switch it over to 787's.
It's a big project to add aircraft and Westjet hasn't been very good handling big projects recently. I'm thinking about the Sabre change over and their reservation project before that which cost them about $30 million for a bunch of useless code.
The entrepreneurial people at WestJet left the company a long time ago and that change is easy to see for anyone who's flown them for more than about 7 years.
I think it is very smart what Air Canada did with Sky Regional as they were clever enough to realize that they were not the best people to take on the Toronto Island project and make it a success. Perhaps they learnt from the Tango and Zip trials.
Westjet's all daytime flying schedule from Alberta to Hawaii is very good. Air Canada's is redeye from Hawaii back to Canada. I will always pay more to avoid the dreaded redeye!!
Dec 22, 2010, 12:33 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 824
Another question, why no flight dates, times and pricing to go along with the announcement???
The quick answer is beacuse the flights are still subject to gov't approval (for NA to operate the flights on behalf of WS).
But this raises some interesting questions: How much business will Westjet lose over the Christmas Holiday's because they will not be able to offer product for sale. AC will still be the only game in town for AB to HNL/OGG during this heavy leisure booking period. Westjet could be waiting until mid Janaury unitl Transport gets around to approving NA for the flights.
Flight times ex YYC will be another prickly subject for Westjet. They will want wingtip to wingtip service with AC and this will rile up US CBP. US CBP has been threatening to not allow preclearence for additional flights that operate at peak times. Pre-clearing a 763, 752 and others at 11am departure time could be too much for them. If so then WS would not be able to get preclearing or they would have to select another time slot for the HNL/OGG departures.
The quick answer is beacuse the flights are still subject to gov't approval (for NA to operate the flights on behalf of WS).
But this raises some interesting questions: How much business will Westjet lose over the Christmas Holiday's because they will not be able to offer product for sale. AC will still be the only game in town for AB to HNL/OGG during this heavy leisure booking period. Westjet could be waiting until mid Janaury unitl Transport gets around to approving NA for the flights.
Flight times ex YYC will be another prickly subject for Westjet. They will want wingtip to wingtip service with AC and this will rile up US CBP. US CBP has been threatening to not allow preclearence for additional flights that operate at peak times. Pre-clearing a 763, 752 and others at 11am departure time could be too much for them. If so then WS would not be able to get preclearing or they would have to select another time slot for the HNL/OGG departures.
WS does not want to match AC's times out of AB. We want and have daytime flights; AC has red-eye's.
Also note that WS didn't get ETOPS approval to fly to Hawaii until the week before its inaugural flight.
Dec 22, 2010, 12:34 am
#12
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 824
So it is finalized. We'd heard rumblings about it for a couple of months but wasn't sure if it was really going to come to reality. I'm surprised though to read in the article that there is only one aircraft. I think there were originally supposed to be 3 in the plan, one for the YYC-Hawaii flights, one for the YEG-Hawaii flights and one as a mechanical spare.
Does anybody know what the seating configuration of this particular tail is (business + economy or all economy, seat pitch, etc)?
Does anybody know what the seating configuration of this particular tail is (business + economy or all economy, seat pitch, etc)?
Dec 22, 2010, 12:37 am
#13
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 824
The seat distance in the 737-800's are closer to 34".
This looks to me as if it is a bandaid solution. They should be thinking about a longer term plan because the demand for non-stop from Alberta to Hawaii isn't going to stop in 2011 or 2012.
Why make North American Airlines rich operating aircraft that aren't consistent with the Westjet product when they could do the same as Air Canada did with Sky Regional.
They should backstop an established operator to get a 2-3 aircraft leased 757/767 operation up and running and then bring it in house in five years with a pre-determined seniority formula and then switch it over to 787's.
It's a big project to add aircraft and Westjet hasn't been very good handling big projects recently. I'm thinking about the Sabre change over and their reservation project before that which cost them about $30 million for a bunch of useless code.
The entrepreneurial people at WestJet left the company a long time ago and that change is easy to see for anyone who's flown them for more than about 7 years.
I think it is very smart what Air Canada did with Sky Regional as they were clever enough to realize that they were not the best people to take on the Toronto Island project and make it a success. Perhaps they learnt from the Tango and Zip trials.
Westjet's all daytime flying schedule from Alberta to Hawaii is very good. Air Canada's is redeye from Hawaii back to Canada. I will always pay more to avoid the dreaded redeye!!
This looks to me as if it is a bandaid solution. They should be thinking about a longer term plan because the demand for non-stop from Alberta to Hawaii isn't going to stop in 2011 or 2012.
Why make North American Airlines rich operating aircraft that aren't consistent with the Westjet product when they could do the same as Air Canada did with Sky Regional.
They should backstop an established operator to get a 2-3 aircraft leased 757/767 operation up and running and then bring it in house in five years with a pre-determined seniority formula and then switch it over to 787's.
It's a big project to add aircraft and Westjet hasn't been very good handling big projects recently. I'm thinking about the Sabre change over and their reservation project before that which cost them about $30 million for a bunch of useless code.
The entrepreneurial people at WestJet left the company a long time ago and that change is easy to see for anyone who's flown them for more than about 7 years.
I think it is very smart what Air Canada did with Sky Regional as they were clever enough to realize that they were not the best people to take on the Toronto Island project and make it a success. Perhaps they learnt from the Tango and Zip trials.
Westjet's all daytime flying schedule from Alberta to Hawaii is very good. Air Canada's is redeye from Hawaii back to Canada. I will always pay more to avoid the dreaded redeye!!
Dec 22, 2010, 2:15 pm
#15
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
I'd suggest your view is that Westjet is planning for long-term addition of new aircraft types to the fleet and that what they are doing now is a big project. Adding a wet-leased aircraft is not a big deal - all they do is sell seats, bringing new aircraft types into their own fleet is a big deal, which is exactly why I think they are doing this small-time now to fill a particular, isolated need. I don't think this move suggests anything with respect to longer-term plans other than as a test case for a larger aircraft, which I'll wildly speculate could be 737-900/ER to handle some somewhat longer-haul routes with full passenger load.