... This is about a seat that did not recline. The contract of carriage is irrelevant, because I have no plans on suing VX. However, given their brand promise and the way they market themselves, that they are purposely flying a "dark" A319 could certainly lead to a pretty nasty class action if someone had the chutzpah to get one started.
I am sure you, and other pax, had the chance to test the seat prior to departure. You had the chance to get up and walk out if the seat was not to your satisfaction.
Here's a thread on airliners.net that speaks to this same item (Dark A319).
It contains a variety of viewpoints, but the general theme is that IFE isn't part of the Contract of Carriage and anything the airline does to compensate you for being on the "Dark" plane is a courtesy.
I'm glad the 15-20 year old posters at a.net feel that it's OK for VX to act as UA does, and only deliver the bare minimum required under the COC. The COC is irrelevant, however, as VX is attempting to establish itself as an airline that does things differently than the legacies do.
I am sure you, and other pax, had the chance to test the seat prior to departure. You had the chance to get up and walk out if the seat was not to your satisfaction.
--J
The dark 319 needs to be disclosed BEFORE purchase. It's too late to say something once the pax is onboard or even a day or two before departure. VX needs to make sure the pax has the option of choosing a different airline if the only reason he or she chose VX was for the better in flight product.
Programs: UA M+ 1K/1MM, VX eleVAte, HHonors Diamond, SPG Gold, Hertz 5 Star
Posts: 2,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjque
I'm glad the 15-20 year old posters at a.net feel that it's OK for VX to act as UA does, and only deliver the bare minimum required under the COC. The COC is irrelevant, however, as VX is attempting to establish itself as an airline that does things differently than the legacies do.
While some a.net postings seem to be from the less informed, I was careful to review that thread before sharing it here. Not because I was looking for any validation, but rather to ensure posts were thoughtfully composed and reasonable, on both sides of the discussion.
I doubt many of those commenting fit the 15-20 year old category, though I have no proof of that.
Programs: UA M+ 1K/1MM, VX eleVAte, HHonors Diamond, SPG Gold, Hertz 5 Star
Posts: 2,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raindeer
So, you are telling me that, if you paid $10K for a 1st class seat on UA, and the seat was broken such that it would not recline into the flat bed you had been promised, you would just chalk it up to, "I paid for transportation, and that's what I got"? No way....
Coach was $44, 1st was $199. I bought a 1st Class seat. TRANSPORTATION, on this flight, cost $44. I paid an extra $155 for the 1st class experience. This isn't just about IFE, as you keep saying. This is about a seat that did not recline. The contract of carriage is irrelevant, because I have no plans on suing VX. However, given their brand promise and the way they market themselves, that they are purposely flying a "dark" A319 could certainly lead to a pretty nasty class action if someone had the chutzpah to get one started.
I believe in your example, UA would have provided me with a credit of about $400 for my trouble.
Not everyone who flew in the Main Cabin paid $44 - that was a fare for some seats and while it may have been available to you at the time of your original purchase, you can't generalize that is the default fare for the main cabin.
The in flight team has the ability to manually recline your seat. Did you ever ask them to do that for you?
I believe in your example, UA would have provided me with a credit of about $400 for my trouble.
Not everyone who flew in the Main Cabin paid $44 - that was a fare for some seats and while it may have been available to you at the time of your original purchase, you can't generalize that is the default fare for the main cabin.
The in flight team has the ability to manually recline your seat. Did you ever ask them to do that for you?
As a 1K paying $10K for F, UA would have done a lot better than that, and you know it. While not everyone paid $44, at the time I booked, that was the price decision I had to make. $44 or $199. In fact, what makes it even more frustrating is that the 4 other flights that day were all priced at $149, even though only 2 of 8 F seats were actually occupied on that flight (maybe the others got wind of the dark A319 and fled.)
I am not sure why you care to defend VX, and it isn't my business. But, I am certain, that there are many folks who agree with me, and, if any of them, due to my talking about this, decide to not fly VX, then the cost to VX will far exceed the $155 I feel I am out. Knowingly flying a dark A319, considering their whole business strategy, is a deception upon their customers.
I don't quite get the concept that one's expectation on a common carrier should be solely to get from point A to point B. I've done that ride (as described below). In the back of my mind, I have an image: the plane a mangled, flaming wreck on the tarmac, with passengers humping their charred carryons towards the terminal and a nearby FA intoning: "We'd like to be the first to welcome you to Los Angeles."
Isn't it reasonable to expect--particularly when it is advertised by the carrier, be it VX, AA, WN, etc. (and they all do advertise/say something about their inflight experience)--a certain level of service during the transportation? I've enjoyed my VX transcons and my Jetblue LGA-OAK flights, during which I've watched live football on the IFE--so IFE can be good even for short flights. However, VX's IFE system remains somewhat buggy. Sometimes it works all the way, sometimes part way, sometimes it freezes. There are other very minor issues: My VX FAs generally haven't known to put a slice of lime with a gin and tonic. VX is still working to get its promised in-flight experience equal to the actual in-cabin in-flight experience.
To the extent the promise falls short of the in-flight reality, VX should do something to make it good. That could range from a simple verbal apology/explanation to vouchers to cash refunds. I'm not talking about/arguing/considering a legal obligation--rather, what a reasonable expectation is given a carrier's communications about its product.
-Hayden
-On an AmericaWest PHX-BOS redeye, in an aisle coach seat that appeared to have last been occupied by a crazy person with incredible strength (the whole armrest assembly seemed to have been ripped away from the seat and it leaned out into the aisle unless I held it in; the seat no longer reclined; the tray table was attached by one hinge and periodically fell towards my lap from the seatback in front of me until I borrowed a bunch of magazines to sort of wedge it in place; and, there was a large gentleman in an even bigger leather coat in the middle seat next to me who occupied part of my semifunctional seat. But the seatbelt worked.
-On Greyhound, sitting next to a gentleman on one side who rode almost 1,000 miles with a large tube TV in his lap because Greyhound wouldn't put it in the baggage hold under the bus. On the other side was a woman who appeared to be having sex with her seatmate at about 3 am, but when they arrived at their destination, she left the bus without a backward glance.
I flew SFO-LAS on 11/29/2007 and had exactly the same experience as Raindeer. Including the experience I had had when I called customer service.
After 2 1/2 months , I'm sorry to hear VX is still defrauding the first class passengers by selling a product they don't have.
1) I recieved no email informing me of the status of the plane
2) Downgrading "on the fly" is a ridiculous suggestion; a walk-up coach seat is NOT the same price as the advanced fare I would have paid if the website would have said, "please be advised, the first class seat you're purchasing will NOT function AT ALL"
3) Not one person on VX's staff ever offered to manually recline the seat. I assumed that the seats were locked in place. I did NOT know that was an option and am now RE-irritated about the whole experience.
I'm glad the 15-20 year old posters at a.net feel that it's OK for VX to act as UA does, and only deliver the bare minimum required under the COC. The COC is irrelevant, however, as VX is attempting to establish itself as an airline that does things differently than the legacies do.
What does age have to do with anything? I have met brilliant 15 year olds and 50 year old "big shot" drunkards who are conviced that the world revolves around them. I thought age discrimination was ilegal (in the USA at least)?
The rest of your point is valid. VX should not be flying a dark A319 without proper compensation. For VX the proper compensation should be a credit for the entire airfare as IFE is such a big part of their experience. I would be very annoyed if my flight is without IFE. I only bought the ticket to try the VX experience.
__________________
Routes I want VX to fly: SEA-JFK/IAD, SFO/LAX-SWF
Barack Obama for President 2008
What does age have to do with anything? I have met brilliant 15 year olds and 50 year old "big shot" drunkards who are conviced that the world revolves around them. I thought age discrimination was ilegal (in the USA at least)?
The rest of your point is valid. VX should not be flying a dark A319 without proper compensation. For VX the proper compensation should be a credit for the entire airfare as IFE is such a big part of their experience. I would be very annoyed if my flight is without IFE. I only bought the ticket to try the VX experience.
Without passing on whether average poster age has anything to do with the quality of the information over at a.net, I'll concede that my comment on the subject was unneccessary. Mea culpa.
I personally think VX shouldn't be flying this 319 at all. This is an airline entering an incredibly competitive marketspace where most carriers have built businesses on price, schedule or a frequent flyer program. VX offers a low price but I think their management team realizes that they can't compete on that factor alone. VX has wisely chosen to build its brand by offering a better in-flight product than the competition, and, IMHO, this is the only thing that will allow VX to beat VX's primary competition: UA, AS, B6, WN and, to a lesser extent, AA. VX will not win a price or schedule war against those carriers, so it needs to deliver on its promise of the best experience in the sky. Flying a dark 319 just does not work with that business plan, and frankly will lead many frequent flyers to believe VX service is comparible to the terrible service provided by UA, only with less legroom.
That said, if VX insists on flying this substandard aircraft, it needs to disclose upfront (i.e. before purchase) that it can't deliver on its promise of IFE and, for F pax, reclining massage seats. VX is clearly not doing that, which is unfortunate given the obvious business consequences.
That said, if VX insists on flying this substandard aircraft, it needs to disclose upfront (i.e. before purchase) that it can't deliver on its promise of IFE and, for F pax, reclining massage seats. VX is clearly not doing that, which is unfortunate given the obvious business consequences.
Given the crazy fare sales they are running, I would think they are competing on price with Southwest, or JetBlue, or Independence Air....
Oh, wait...we all know what happened to Independence Air....
Given the crazy fare sales they are running, I would think they are competing on price with Southwest, or JetBlue, or Independence Air....
Oh, wait...we all know what happened to Independence Air....
I doubt the fare sales indicate that VX intends to compete on price with WN, B6 or other LCC's. The strategy appears to be to get people to try VX just once based on some rock bottom fare (in either F or Y). Once they see how much better the in flight experience is than the competition, many people will start flying VX regularly, and then the fares will go up to a normal level.
I think it's a good strategy but one that does not work with the dark 319 flying. There are many high yield passengers, myself included, who are somewhat price sensitive for personal trips but price insensitive for business trips. Flying me to Vegas for $100 could yield a number of full fare F tickets SFO-JFK/IAD later in the year if the SFO-LAS experience lives up to VX's hype about its product. Unfortunately, the VX strategy folks and the VX operations folks don't appear to be coordinating very well.
Once they see how much better the in flight experience is than the competition, many people will start flying VX regularly, and then the fares will go up to a normal level.
Having just endured a UA transcon with disgruntled FAs, I wish you were right. VX service is noticeably better.
However, I don't know what their strategy really is, especially when they're getting crushed in frequencies by WN, UA, and soon AS.
I've flown with them quite a bit, and it's getting sad to see such great crewmembers walking up and down aisles full of empty seats.
David Cush needs to rein in the PR frenzy, and that IFE guy who wants to be an Internet celebrity. Sad as it to say, the company needs more sensible route planning, and fewer publicity stunts.
I flew in F on a purchased ticket SFO-LAS on this very plane back in November when it was first put into service.
Yes, the entertainment system wasn't available, but the crew was super nice and they did recline all the F seats for the people who asked (what? you didn't know that they can be reclined manually? maybe they didn't tell you because you were nasty to them).
We also got a nice snack and all the drinks we wanted. And it's a pretty short flight. Yes, I was glad to have "Red" on the flight back (especially since there were delays long enough to watch 90% of a movie) but in the end the seat you got (that you paid extra $ for) was huge by comparison to Y and you also got to sit up front, you got your own lav, you got to board first, and frankly your attitude sounds like you think you won't be made whole unless they bow to you and beg you to accept a full refund.
If you can't get over it - don't give them any more of your money, it seems pretty simple to me.
