switters

I was just reading this post on LoungeBuddy, where I learned that I can use Elevate miles on VS and other partners (yes, I'm an Elevate newbie).

Then I used the points calculator on this page to find out how many Elevate miles I would need to fly RT to LHR in UC. I was surprised to see that it's only 50k miles + $910 in fees.

1) Am I reading that correctly? That seems like a pretty good value.

2) With Elevate points on VX, I know I can use points for any seat I could book with a cash fare. Is the same true for Elevate points on VS, or do I have to search for award availability using VS's website?

Thanks.

GrayAnderson

1) That is correct. It's even less from the East Coast (MCO-London is 40k, BOS/JFK/EWR/IAD is 35k).

2) I know that award availability is a thing with VS. I don't recall, however, what partner award availability looks like vis-a-vis general availability. That said, VS does seem to be comparatively loose with awards.

bayhouse

Although it seems like a great exchange at first, the value is diminished by the fact that you have to pay ~$1K in taxes/fuel surcharges. The cost of the surcharges is a bit steep for a reward in my opinion. But even still, I've used my Elevate points exclusively on VS Upper rewards and don't regret the decision -- and I fully intend on doing so in the future.

Personally, I just think of it as basically buying an economy ticket (which wold cost roughly $1K) and using the points as an upgrade. I know that this isn't how it *actually* works, of course.

switters

Thanks.

Given that the cash price for an UC RT from SFO to LHR is $5,350, I'm still seeing this as a decent value even with nearly $1k in taxes.

I'll call VX this morning and see if there is award space on the flight that I want. There isn't any space when I search on VS's website, but perhaps they release more space to VX Elevate members (I kind of doubt it, but worth a try).

Does anyone know if I will still earn status points on a VS flight that I used Elevate points to book? The Lounge Buddy post mentioned that flights on VS earn Elevate status points based on distance flown and booking class, but I'm not sure if that works when the flight was booked with Elevate points rather than cash.

Is there a chart somewhere that shows how many Elevate status points you get when flying on VS?

switters

I called VX and this is what I learned:

• No award space on VS on my dates, though there is space in May/June if I depart/return on a Wed instead of a Sat
• Space for VX Elevate members on VS flights is very limited, and less than what VS releases to its own reward program members
• You can do an initial search on VS's website for award availability. If there's nothing available there, there won't be anything available for Elevate members. But even if there is award space showing on VS's website, that doesn't mean it would be available to Elevate members.
• You don't get status points for a flight booked with an award (but I'm sure you already knew that).

daniellax

I used the Delta award search engine to check for available partner rewards on VS flights, found 2 UC on the flight I wanted from LHR-LAX, and was able to book it using my VX points.

switters

Curious, how is this different than using the VS site to search for awards, and then calling VX to verify availability?

Is the assumption that VS releases the same award availability to Delta as it does to VX, which would mean if Delta is showing space then there is space for Elevate points?

daniellax

Exactly. VS releases more award space for VS members, but Delta likely gets the same space as VX.

GrayAnderson

Ok, the Delta tool isn't great because there's no clear way to say "I only want your partner's awards, not yours". Trying to brute-force flexibility on airports isn't easy (from my position, if I'm not going out of IAD I don't care if I'm using BOS, JFK, EWR, or MCO...I'll probably end up spending a connecting evening in the city in question regardless because travel time from southern VA isn't exactly small)...and since I'm cashing VX points, not DL ones, Delta's flights are utterly *ahem* pointless for me to look up.

That being said, does Upper Class trigger as a "Business" fare for Delta's purposes?

Edit: As a rule, I can find availability in February on at least one of the morning flights from either EWR or JFK to London. I can frequently find it on at least one of the evening flights as well.

GrayAnderson

Ok, I just ran a brute force check with Delta's system and got the following availability through the end of January:
S 12-13: VS18, VS04, VS46, VS02, VS10
U 12-14: VS18, VS02
M 12-15: VS18, VS04, VS02
T 12-16: VS18
W 12-17: Nothing
R 12-18: Nothing
F 12-19: Nothing
S 12-20: Nothing
U 12-21: Nothing
M 12-22: Nothing
T 12-23: VS26
W 12-24: VS18, VS26, VS02
R 12-25: VS26, VS02
F 12-26: VS04, VS46, VS02
S 12-27: VS18, VS26, VS46, VS10
U 12-28: VS18, VS26, VS04, VS46, VS02
M 12-29: VS18, VS26, VS04, VS46, VS02
T 12-30: VS18, VS26, VS04, VS02, VS10
W 12-31: VS18, VS26, VS04, VS46, VS02, VS10
R 01-01: VS18, VS04, VS46, VS02, VS10
F 01-02: Nothing
S 01-03: Nothing
U 01-04: Nothing
M 01-05: Nothing
T 01-06: VS18
W 01-07: VS18, VS02
R 01-08: VS18, VS26
F 01-09: VS18, VS02
S 01-10: Nothing
U 01-11: Nothing
M 01-12: Nothing
T 01-13: Nothing
W 01-14: Nothing
R 01-15: VS18
F 01-16: VS18, VS46
S 01-17: VS02
U 01-18: VS26, VS10
M 01-19: VS18, VS02
T 01-20: VS46, VS02
W 01-21: VS26
R 01-22: VS18
F 01-23: VS18
S 01-24: VS18, VS26
U 01-25: VS46
M 01-26: VS26, VS10
T 01-27: VS26, VS04, VS02
W 01-28: VS02
R 01-29: VS18, VS26
F 01-30: Nothing
S 01-31: VS18, VS26, VS04, VS10

Key:
VS18: 0730 from EWR
VS26: 0815 from JFK
VS04: 1830 from JFK
VS46: 1930 from JFK
VS02: 2030 from EWR
VS10: 2130 from JFK

Note: I don't want to try replicating this with a call to Elevate's number (Elevate doesn't allow web booking), but if VX gets the same allowances as DL that's what the next month and a half would look like. Also, I added days of the week for reference.

Edit: I went with NYC-LON because that does have the most flights available on a daily basis (6x daily). The availability between DL's system and VS's seems to be at least somewhat similar...so that might be an issue. I think SFO-LON may just be more restricted because of the single daily flight.

Edit2: Suspicion may be confirmed. I checked on VS's website...Upperclass indicates availability SFO-LHR on:
-December: 7 days (12-25 to 12-31)
-January: 0 days
-February: 0 days
-March: 5 days
-April: 8 days
-May: 6 days (incl. 4 Wednesdays)
-June: 1 day
So out of 181 days in the first half of next year, VS only has Upperclass space SFO-LON for their members on 20 of them. NYC-LON matches that number in January alone.

switters

Thank you GrayAnderson for doing that!

It matches what I found. There is award space on VS in UC from SFO > LHR in May, but only if I'm willing to fly on Wednesdays. Wednesday is not ideal at all, since I really only have to be in London from M-F for 2 weeks, so flying on a Wed adds 3 extra days to the trip that I don't need/want.

GrayAnderson

I posted this over on V-Flyer, but here's what a broader checking found:
-Very thin availability SFO-LON (20 days in the first six months of 2015 per VS's website)
-Very thin availability MCO-LON (11 days in the first six months of 2015 per VS's website, 9 of which are in late June and which probably coincide with VS running a larger fleet to/from MCO)
-Moderate availability IAD-LON (39 days in the first six months of 2015 per VS's website, with a modest bias towards the winter/spring)
-Similar availability BOS-LON (38 days in the first six months of 2015 per VS's website)
-Extreme availability NYC-LON (19 days in January alone per VS's website, and 20-21 days available per DL's website...though DL's was a mild pain to use and it is plausible that I counted a day twice or that some availability changed; 21 days of 28 in Feb per VS's website, 29/31 in Mar, 27/30 in Apr, 26/31 in May, and 28/30 in Jun for about 150/181 days of availability...as well as substantial availability in December (including spaces on 5 of 6 flights for today as of about midnight, and space through 12-16 and 12-23 to 12-31 per DL).

Now, I cannot speak to what carries over to DL (I am not running 900 day/airport combos!), let alone VX...but assuming some close connection there, I think this is probably representative.

TL;DR: Take VX to NYC and VS from there.

switters

Thanks again. This is the problem I have using miles. I'm a picky traveler, and I much prefer nonstop flights. I have a 2% cashback capital one card with 2,000,000 miles saved up, so I'll probably just use that to book a nonstop from SFO to LHR. That's only 2:1 value, but at least I get a direct route