Programs: UA 1K, DL Plat,SPG Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Hertz PC, National Exec Elite
Posts: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdaecher
I was thinking the same - was flying Thursday b/w CVG and PHL. Delta and US were the obvious options w/non-stops. Since I can;t get segment credit in CO OP for my Delta segment, I had decided to at least punish US by booking it through UAL but credit miles/seg to US (since 500 is still in effect). While the non-stop on US was clearly available, I couldn;t get this to show as a code share on UAL.com. So, I booked Delta (at a slightly higher cost than US - take that Doug!)
Perhaps there are some limitations there on codeshares - if someone didn't want US credit, they would be forced to buy from US and credit miles to UAL. More $ for US, less mileage liability.
Slightly off topic, but CVG-PHL is 502 miles, so even with the change in policy, you would have received full credit
2. Pass out Frequent Flyer Award Cards at the gate.
3. Get a stamp for each segment that you fly.
4. Fill up the card with the pre-determined number of stamps
and you win a free flight.
that's precisely the mechanism from the earliest days of the WN program. accumulate stamps on your program pamphlet at the gate, and with enough stamps you get a freebie...
TalkBoard Member/Moderator: Southwest and JetBlue forums
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN CP & A-list, Interstate BBQ at MEM B17, CO Lifetime Presidents Club
Posts: 9,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33
that's precisely the mechanism from the earliest days of the WN program. accumulate stamps on your program pamphlet at the gate, and with enough stamps you get a freebie...
Yes, that post was certainly tongue in cheek. However, Southwest Airlines pleases customers by setting low expectations and exceeding them. Legacy carriers are at a disadvantage to the extent that customers have higher expectations.
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion; US Airways Silver (down from Gold in 2007)
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsx
Yes, that post was certainly tongue in cheek. However, Southwest Airlines pleases customers by setting low expectations and exceeding them. Legacy carriers are at a disadvantage to the extent that customers have higher expectations.
Legacies like US Airways COULD make people stop .....ing about devaluation of the FF programs by lowering prices.
If US Airways was only 5% or 10% more expensive than Southwest, with the highly devalued DM program, I wouldn't complain with the changes.
However, US Airways charges classic legacy pricing on many routes, but delivers worse than LCC service in coach. I was willing to put up with this due to the improving operations and the high-value DM program, but the depreciation of Dividend Miles means that there's no reason to pay the premium.
US is welcome to move to a "credit only actual miles flown" model if it intends to compete with Southwest. However, it's also going to have to attain Southwest levels of comfort, reliability, and competitive pricing.
At the moment, it would appear that my once-beloved US Airways is toast. It's providing short-hops in either dirty old 737s or cramped, uncomfortable RJs and turboprops, with operational reliability that's only so-so, and pricing that's often 3x to 6x what Southwest or JetBlue costs.
I'd stick around if I was getting Dividend Miles and a fair shot at an upgrade on the 7 dirty 7s. However, that's going away -- now, it makes sense to choose the lowest cost carrier since not only is the cost lower (often much, much lower), but the service in coach on WN or JetBlue is better, and the measly 210 DMs you get for a short-hop isn't worth the extra expense, pain and inconvenience of choosing US Airways' CRJs or Dash 8s.
I just priced NY to BOS on Friday. US Airways wants $442 for a day trip. For a similar itinerary on the same day, JetBlue wants $369. What does US offer above JetBlue for the extra $70? Nothing.
How about NY to Buffalo on Friday for a day trip? US Airways wants $268 -- but Jetblue only wants $144. US Airways is offering Piedmont turboprop service from NY (cramped, uncomfy, no upgrade), while JetBlue is offering comfortable Airbus narrowbody service. What is US offering above JetBlue for the extra $120+? Nothing.
Business travelers who want to be competitive already watch flight costs. All this decision by US will do is cause lots of people to go from Piedmont props and US's shuttle to JetBlue all-jet service on Airbus and E170 planes with TV. If US wants to compete on price alone, it's going to have to start pricing at a steep DISCOUNT relative to JetBlue, since the JetBlue product is superior. The *only* thing allowing US to charge a premium on short-hops was DM and the ability to build status and loyalty (as well as the potential of upgrades on some segments). With DM depreciated to an unprecedented degree, all the BusinessWeek (and Tempe) "get over it" rhetoric will be received with a yawn and record bookings on low-fare carriers who offer limited loyalty programs but lower fares and superior service on more comfortable aircraft.
This DM decision is literally a bankruptcy-causing mistake for US, at the beginning of a recession when traveler loyalty will make or break an airline's ability to survive. A shame too, at a time when operations seemed to be finally turning around.
Last edited by FrequentHopper; Feb 25, 08 at 12:49 pm.
Moderator: US Airways Dividend Miles, Starwood Preferred Guest & Virgin America eleVAte
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
Programs: US CP; SPG Plat; Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 5,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrequentHopper
. . . This DM decision is literally a bankruptcy-causing mistake for US, at the beginning of a recession when traveler loyalty will make or break an airline's ability to survive. A shame too, at a time when operations seemed to be finally turning around.
I don't know about 'bankruptcy-causing,' but it is sure to hurt them at a time when they should be focusing on retention and strengthening of loyalty relationships, not jeopardizing them.
If they had given this any reasonable amount of thought, they would have taken a page out of UA's approach to their new single-checked-bag rule and made DM Preferred members exempt from the change, making it a non-issue to their best customers.
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion; US Airways Silver (down from Gold in 2007)
Posts: 899
I actually believe it is bankruptcy-causing.
We're going into a nasty recession with soaring fuel prices, lots of competition, and new capacity coming online everyday domestically from lots of LCCs including JetBlue, Southwest and Airtran.
Airtran alone is set to take delivery of 60+ 737s over the next several years.
US's decision to devalue the FF program, while charging more for an inferior experience, will result in a lot of the people who paid higher fares going for lower fare carriers since DM is worthless for short-hop trips.
In an atmosphere where the choice is between higher-fare carriers with big networks, alliances, and 500-mile minimums (hello Delta and CO), and lower-fare carriers with better service (hello Airtran, JetBlue and Southwest), US will be the meat in the middle of the sandwich.
Their fares are too high (and service too poor) to be considered a short-hop LCC. And their FF program has been too severely devalued versus other competitors to be considered a "legacy full service" carrier.
With a dip in travel and price-sensitive customers, they're gonna be toast at the low end of the market (the "Kettles" everybody talks about). And for higher-fare customers who remain, they'll stick with legacies who haven't eviscerated the FF program and product.
Who's going to be left to fly them?
Prior to the decision, US was sometimes a lower-fare legacy with a great FF program. Now it's a high-fare, poor-service "LCC." The former was a workable business model, the latter is a one-way path to Chapter 33.
Via USA Today's "Today in the Sky," here is the corporate response to internal questions about the 500-mile minimum and glassware. The response seems to be that US FFs are still better off than the competition because DL doesn't allow qualification by segments.
Programs: US Chairman, SWA, United, AA, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11
You got my vote
"On Thursday, I am flying to Toronto for work. The fare is still over $1,300 on all airlines. I am flying United, despite the fact that I live in Philadelphia and this means I will need to connect. But certain things are worth protesting. If anyone is going to inconvenience me, it will be me - not a management team that doesn't value me or my business."
Yout got my vote, as a charitman I am flying tomorrow and they want $322.50 for me to buy thee segements to get chairman again. No way. I am moving to United for most of my travel and they matched my status.
To add insult to the mix, I fly tomorrow for an important apointment in Detroit from FAY and if I had not tried the Web check in I would not have know the CLT-DET segement was cancelled and I needed to rebook. There is USA costing me another client. Fortunately I can get out early waste some more time in the good ole snow storm headed for DET, but save a client.
I just priced NY to BOS on Friday. US Airways wants $442 for a day trip. For a similar itinerary on the same day, JetBlue wants $369. What does US offer above JetBlue for the extra $70? Nothing.
How about NY to Buffalo on Friday for a day trip? US Airways wants $268 -- but Jetblue only wants $144. US Airways is offering Piedmont turboprop service from NY (cramped, uncomfy, no upgrade), while JetBlue is offering comfortable Airbus narrowbody service. What is US offering above JetBlue for the extra $120+? Nothing.
Actually, I'd say less - especially if you set aside the FF/elite programs, which this change is making many of us do.
Got this response to my email yesterday afternoon. I don't believe that this exact email has been seen before, but with so many pages, I could be incorrect.
It actually addresses my email and the issue at hand. I'm still not sure the justification is correct, but at least its not "Oil prices are high"
Mr. California09,
Thank you for contacting US Airways. Your email was forwarded from
another area and this has delayed our response to you. We can understand
your concerns about the changes in our mileage accrual for short haul
flights.
All frequent flyer programs face the problem of what to do with the
abundance of miles that have been issued over the years. In attempting
to control their mileage liability, carriers make choices about whether
to reign in mileage earning, or to seek to control the redemption of
miles, i.e. make it harder for customers to find award seats.
US Airways is committed to making responsible choices in order to ensure
that the Dividend Miles program can continue to deliver benefits in the
future. We believe that constraining future mileage accrual is a more
transparent approach to dealing with program-related expense than simply
making it harder for customers to redeem.
Your business is important to us and we feel confident that US Airways
can meet your future travel needs.
Tracy McIntyre
Dividend Miles
Original Message Follows: ------------------------
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:56 AM
To: Executive Office
Subject: 500 Mile Minimum Elimination
US Airways Executives,
I am writing to express my disappointment in your decision to eliminate
the 500 minimum miles per flight. I am located in Boston and am a
frequent US Airways flier (currently Silver, will be Gold this weekend).
While much of my flying is to Charlotte (727 miles, and hence
unaffected), the most frequent flight taken by my colleagues and I is
the US Airways Shuttle (BOS-LGA-DCA). While I do not have the numbers in
front of me, I know that our consulting firms spends tens of thousands
of dollars on these routes every year. By eliminating the 500 mile
minimum, you have effectively made a $400-$500 1 way ticket worth 184
miles. Even if you are Chairman?s, it?s worth a grand total of 368
miles. My firm belief is that with this change in place, the Delta
Shuttle will become a much better option (1000 miles for Platinum
Medallion).
My other concern is with your ?justification? for this change. The
number of outstanding miles has absolutely no relation to fuel costs.
Yes it is a liability, and yes, it can become an expense, but it will
have no effect on the cost of fuel. Unless you are running a significant
number of extra plane each day solely to carry award ticket passengers
(and I cant imagine that there?s a plane full of award tickets on their
way from BOS-FLL right now), this justification is invalid.
If this policy stays in place, I fully plan on draining my existing
mileage (probably on another carrier) and switching all my mileage
earning to United or another *A partner. I urge you to reconsider
screwing over your most profitable passengers ? those willing to pay
$400/each way for a $180 mile ride. The Delta Shuttle (I have status on
Delta as well) and the Acela are looking better by the hour.
Got this response to my email yesterday afternoon. I don't believe that this exact email has been seen before, but with so many pages, I could be incorrect.
It actually addresses my email and the issue at hand. I'm still not sure the justification is correct, but at least its not "Oil prices are high"
Mr. California09,
Thank you for contacting US Airways. Your email was forwarded from
another area and this has delayed our response to you. We can understand
your concerns about the changes in our mileage accrual for short haul
flights........................................... .
I received the same one a couple days ago. I replied, expressing my sympathies for those who in the name of their job have to put their name to a form letter that shows such a lack of logic.
Got this response to my email yesterday afternoon. I don't believe that this exact email has been seen before, but with so many pages, I could be incorrect.
It actually addresses my email and the issue at hand. I'm still not sure the justification is correct, but at least its not "Oil prices are high"
It's an interesting letter. What I don't really understand is that ever since they instituted the 18 month inactivity rule, are miles really "piling up."
I wouldn't think so. I just can't believe it's that big an issue to cut a couple hundred miles from a short hop flight. It doesn't make enough economic sense to justify the customer dissatisfaction.
It's an interesting letter. What I don't really understand is that ever since they instituted the 18 month inactivity rule, are miles really "piling up."
I wouldn't think so. I just can't believe it's that big an issue to cut a couple hundred miles from a short hop flight. It doesn't make enough economic sense to justify the customer dissatisfaction.
My thought exactly. Also, limiting the number of new miles earned has NO effect on the miles outstanding. Sure, it slows future growth, but those old miles are still there. The 18-month rule is what really affects that.
Also, I'm looking forward to quoting the following passage once US makes changes (a la DL) to redemption availability :
"We believe that constraining future mileage accrual is a more
transparent approach to dealing with program-related expense than simply
making it harder for customers to redeem."
Also, I'm looking forward to quoting the following passage once US makes changes (a la DL) to redemption availability :
In a way they seem to be, although I won't go as far as claiming it's intentional but rather a systems problem they seem to be in no hurry to fix. How often has it been said here that one needs to do their homework before calling about an OAL international award (especially trans-Atlantic/Pacific). It's been reported that just calling for an OAL award seat to XXX often results in a "There's no availability" unless you've done you homework and have specific suggestions for flights/connecting points. So how many folks wanting to redeem miles use such things as the ANA tool to do their homework, instead just taking the "No availability" as the last word (not counting FT members, of course).
