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Why Did CLT-HNL Service Fail When IAD-HNL and JFK-HNL Thrive??
Was USAir's CLT-HNL service really a bust or is that what the airline wants us to believe because it wasn't a money maker? The reason I ask is because both United and Hawaiian have introduced East Coast-Honolulu service this year and I have flown both several times and the flights have been packed. Granted, the flights are full of mostly leisure passengers, many of which may have used miles, but I can't believe that these flights aren't money makers, especially with the lowest standard roundtrip fare hovering around $1K. Even if the passenger used miles, I am sure that there were only a few saver level seats available and the remainder at the premium level, which helps reduce the airlines FF liability.
In addition, it appears that East coast passengers prefer connecting on the East coast (if they have to), as opposed to connecting at PHX, LAX or SFO. So, what was it with USAir? Was it greed? Was it CLT? Would PHL have been a better connecting point? Was it scheduling? Lack of marketing? Was it the type of aircraft? Or was it something else? Please educate me because I just don't understand why JFK-HNL and IAD-HNL seem to be a hit and CLT-HNL wasn't.
Don't know for sure, but perhaps the difference is that NYC and WAS are much, much larger metro areas than the CLT metro area; presumably, the NYC and WAS flights are filled with O&D traffic while the CLT flight relied on connecting passengers. Typically, nonstop passengers are willing to pay higher average fares than are connecting passengers.
Was USAir's CLT-HNL service really a bust or is that what the airline wants us to believe because it wasn't a money maker?
If a flight isn't making money, isn't it a bust, at least from a financial standpoint? And in any case, why on earth would they keep a flight if it's not making money?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LETTERBOY
If a flight isn't making money, isn't it a bust, at least from a financial standpoint? And in any case, why on earth would they keep a flight if it's not making money?
What I meant to say was that it didn't make as much money as they envisioned. I tend to agree with another poster in that DC and NY are larger metro areas with more O&D traffic than CLT generated and those passengers don't mind paying more, compared to connecting passengers. I live in the DC area and find the IAD-HNL service highly appealing, even though I could take a connecting flight for less. With that said, PHL-HNL would have probably survived, as opposed to CLT.
I'm sympathetic with OP's question... Only took CLT-HNL once, but really miss it! (BTW, could add EWR-HNL on CO/UA as another example of East Coast NS.)
My (foggy) perception is that flights to the Hawaiian Islands just don't figure much in US's scheme of things. We have another thread up here about the standard 757 service from PHX and, let's face it, it's tired at best, if only because the planes are tired. Speaking of tired, for much of the year, going East from HNL etc. one has to do the Pacific red-eye and then lose a sleepy day doing PHX-PHL or PHX-CLT or whatever. Count me as someone who is waiting for the early afternoon HNL-PHX departure to come back (please!) I mean, if you have to check out, or whatever, by noon, yeah, fun in the sun and all that, but with a whole overnight and full next day of flying and airport sitting (PHX), and nowhere to shower or snooze, just how great are those 10pm HNL departures?
More by way of preferences and observations than explanations, except to say that aircraft limits (old 757s, need 767s for Europe and Brazil) and the strong commitment to the three hubs, only one of which is west of CLT and only one of which (PHL) has much O&D traffic (in comparative perspective) make US too limited and unimaginative for Hawai`i, at least for those of us on East Coast.
When this route was active, I recall many times folks posting that the aircraft had to land on the west coast to refuel. This happened usually during the winter months with the head winds. It costs money to stop along the way to refuel. Whether it is landing fee's, the fuel itself, etc. That takes away from any profit margin they may have had.
As for making money, who knows what they really make. That goes for any airline. They have to be making money somewhere otherwise they wouldn't be flying a particular route or doing what they do. Similiar to a car dealership. "We are selling this to you at our cost". Right.....LOL
Keep in mind that the 767-200 that US Airways operated is a high-cost fuel guzzler. All of the other East Coast to HNL flights (DL from ATL with A330-300, HA from JFK with A330-200, and UA from IAD and EWR with 767-400) are operated by more fuel efficient aircraft with higher capacity, which helps make the flights viable in these long-haul, low-yield markets.
Given the small size of the US A330 fleet, these aircraft almost certainly generate a higher return flying to Europe than to Hawaii. So I wouldn't expect to see CLT/PHL to HNL return any time soon.
Ditto about the high cost of fuel and aircraft utilization. Also, business pax will often pay a premium for non-stop service - leisure travelers not so much and I suspect that you would need a pretty high average fare to make this work.
Hawaii is not my cup of tea but from what I've read few US carriers place much emphasis on service on these routes - search for the term "ghetto bird" on the UA forums.
The OP says it all. Cheap fares + expensive aircraft = doomed. In addition, unlike UA which operates onward to GUM and has the Island Hopper traffic, US had none of that.
Not sure there's many people who would fly WAS-CLT or NYC-CLT when they can fly xJFK or xIAD directly to HNL or, of they do need to connect, break the trip at LAX or SFO. That leaves CLT O&D as well as some Florida inbound traffic. But, have to ask why anybody would fly Florida-CLT-HI when they can either fly through ATL on DL or break the trip on the West Coast.
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I don't think it has been established that JFK-HNL and IAD-HNL are "thriving". HA's JFK-HNL is on sale for $400 just about every other week and UA has already reduced IAD-HNL frequency.
Don't know for sure, but perhaps the difference is that NYC and WAS are much, much larger metro areas than the CLT metro area; presumably, the NYC and WAS flights are filled with O&D traffic while the CLT flight relied on connecting passengers. Typically, nonstop passengers are willing to pay higher average fares than are connecting passengers.
This is exactly what I was going to say. And actually, I was living in Hawaii during the beginning of the UA/CO merger, and when I visited family in ORD, it happened to be the last month CO was doing free food on the Hawaii flights, so I wanted to do EWR-HNL. Nonstop it was almost $2,000 return, whereas, if I booked HNL-EWR-YYZ, it was only $500. (Then booked an AC return to ORD for less than $200) Point being that the O&D traffic commands a premium fare, and CLT is not a major hub for O&D traffic, especially to Hawaii. And if people have to transit, why transit in CLT and take USAir, versus Delta or CO, which, if memory serves, still both had free meal service at that time, and in-seat entertainment, as opposed to overhead monitors. And my cabin crew friends (who worked for regionals and got benefits on numerous airlines, but at a very low position) always took this flight to get to HNL, because it was the one route that always had space.
