Virgin America to Start PHL-LAX and PHL-SFO
Jan 19, 2012, 5:01 pm
#61
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Yes, Philadelphia has a reputation (not unjustly earned) of being rather provincial. It's a declining metropolis, so almost nobody moves there. So you don't have a population "on the move." I am certain it has a comparative low "active passport" ratio. Nor is it a major tourist destination (despite being the location of the founding of our country). A rather mediocre but decent sized market. For better or worse, US is probably the right airline for the market (lower cost, so it can sustain lower yields and lots of connecting traffic).
Jan 19, 2012, 7:55 pm
#62
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That is it - PHL doesn't generate the business O&D it should for a city or MSA it's size. It's for one reason only - about 10-12% of business traffic from any major city in the U.S. is headed to or from DC and NYC (that applies in general, but the business traffic is especially important). Because of PHL's proximity to those two cities, alternate transportation competes effectively with flying - many here would say that Acela is preferable to flying from PHL to either DC or NYC.
That does not mean that business traffic from PHL to the other major U.S. cities (like LAX/SFO) is affected, just that a significant percentage of local PHL business traffic is affected.
Jim
That does not mean that business traffic from PHL to the other major U.S. cities (like LAX/SFO) is affected, just that a significant percentage of local PHL business traffic is affected.
Jim
Jan 20, 2012, 3:23 am
#63
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I highly doubt it will make much of a difference, VX does not have a very strong FF program, and the people with status will continue to fly US. VX is the new kid on the block, however if they end up having a MX or other issues, people will see its not worth the switch. I give VX 6 months before they drop the routes.
Apparently Virgin America is going to try to make a go of it in Philly. It will be interesting to see what effect this has on US fares.
Jan 17, 2012 (The Philadelphia Inquirer - McClatchy-Tribune Information
Services via COMTEX) -- Low-cost carrier Virgin America will start flying to
Philadelphia from California this spring, offering competition to US Airways
Group Inc. on flights to Los Angeles and San Francisco.
Virgin, a privately-owned carrier which is 25 percent owned by English
billionaire Richard Branson, will offer three daily round-trip flights from Los
Angeles, starting April 4, and two daily round-trip flights from San Francisco,
starting April 10.
Starting at noon today, the San Francisco-based airline is offering introductory
one-way fares of $129 between Philadelphia and Los Angeles, and $149 one-way
fares between Philadelphia and San Francisco, excluding taxes and fees.
"When more airlines compete, consumers win -- with lower fares and better
service," said Virgin America president and CEO David Cush. "Travelers deserve
more options than just the typical legacy airline cattle car, and we hope our
unique brand of low fares and inventive service will be a breath of fresh air
for Philadelphians."
Cush said the Philadelphia market has "strong business and leisure travel
connections to California -- and we thank both Mayor Nutter and Philadelphia
International Airport for welcoming our new service."
When entering markets that offer little low-fare competition, Cush said, Virgin
America has historically seen fares drop by up to one-third.
In addition, 50 percent of travelers flying from Philadelphia to the Los Angeles
market now use connecting flights and 45 percent of those traveling from
Philadelphia to the San Francisco Bay Area are connecting passengers, he said.
Virgin America portrays itself as a hip, high-tech airline, offering such
amenities as touchscreen entertainment systems, wireless Internet cabins, and
soft mood lighting.
The San Francisco-based airline was started in 2007.
Branson, who in 1972 opened a chain of record stores, Virgin Records, and
expanded the Virgin brand in the 1980s to include Virgin Atlantic Airways that
flies internationally, holds 25 percent of the voting stock, with U.S. investors
holding 75 percent. Virgin America serves 16 airports in the U.S. and Mexico.
"This is a great development for the entire Philadelphia region, including
northern Delaware, southern New Jersey and Southeastern Pennsylvania," said
Philadelphia Mayor Michael A. Nutter. "New airline service not only lowers fares
for travelers, but it is also a major economic driver -- stimulating business
travel, tourism and local job growth. Virgin America's new flights also validate
the strong and growing business travel link between our region's
innovation-based sectors and those on the West Coast."
Contact staff writer Linda Loyd at 215-854-2831 or [email protected].
Jan 17, 2012 (The Philadelphia Inquirer - McClatchy-Tribune Information
Services via COMTEX) -- Low-cost carrier Virgin America will start flying to
Philadelphia from California this spring, offering competition to US Airways
Group Inc. on flights to Los Angeles and San Francisco.
Virgin, a privately-owned carrier which is 25 percent owned by English
billionaire Richard Branson, will offer three daily round-trip flights from Los
Angeles, starting April 4, and two daily round-trip flights from San Francisco,
starting April 10.
Starting at noon today, the San Francisco-based airline is offering introductory
one-way fares of $129 between Philadelphia and Los Angeles, and $149 one-way
fares between Philadelphia and San Francisco, excluding taxes and fees.
"When more airlines compete, consumers win -- with lower fares and better
service," said Virgin America president and CEO David Cush. "Travelers deserve
more options than just the typical legacy airline cattle car, and we hope our
unique brand of low fares and inventive service will be a breath of fresh air
for Philadelphians."
Cush said the Philadelphia market has "strong business and leisure travel
connections to California -- and we thank both Mayor Nutter and Philadelphia
International Airport for welcoming our new service."
When entering markets that offer little low-fare competition, Cush said, Virgin
America has historically seen fares drop by up to one-third.
In addition, 50 percent of travelers flying from Philadelphia to the Los Angeles
market now use connecting flights and 45 percent of those traveling from
Philadelphia to the San Francisco Bay Area are connecting passengers, he said.
Virgin America portrays itself as a hip, high-tech airline, offering such
amenities as touchscreen entertainment systems, wireless Internet cabins, and
soft mood lighting.
The San Francisco-based airline was started in 2007.
Branson, who in 1972 opened a chain of record stores, Virgin Records, and
expanded the Virgin brand in the 1980s to include Virgin Atlantic Airways that
flies internationally, holds 25 percent of the voting stock, with U.S. investors
holding 75 percent. Virgin America serves 16 airports in the U.S. and Mexico.
"This is a great development for the entire Philadelphia region, including
northern Delaware, southern New Jersey and Southeastern Pennsylvania," said
Philadelphia Mayor Michael A. Nutter. "New airline service not only lowers fares
for travelers, but it is also a major economic driver -- stimulating business
travel, tourism and local job growth. Virgin America's new flights also validate
the strong and growing business travel link between our region's
innovation-based sectors and those on the West Coast."
Contact staff writer Linda Loyd at 215-854-2831 or [email protected].
Jan 20, 2012, 6:02 am
#64
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This doesn't surprise me. A sizable number of native Philadelphians don't travel much. I've met people here who have never been to NYC -- 100 miles away.
Jan 20, 2012, 6:07 am
#65
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Location: PHL
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I highly doubt it will make much of a difference, VX does not have a very strong FF program, and the people with status will continue to fly US. VX is the new kid on the block, however if they end up having a MX or other issues, people will see its not worth the switch. I give VX 6 months before they drop the routes.
Jan 20, 2012, 6:15 am
#66
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Yes, Philadelphia has a reputation (not unjustly earned) of being rather provincial. It's a declining metropolis, so almost nobody moves there. So you don't have a population "on the move." I am certain it has a comparative low "active passport" ratio. Nor is it a major tourist destination (despite being the location of the founding of our country). A rather mediocre but decent sized market. For better or worse, US is probably the right airline for the market (lower cost, so it can sustain lower yields and lots of connecting traffic).
Philadelphia's population increased 0.6% between the 2000 and 2010 census. The metro area grew 4.89% during that same period.
You might want to double check your "certain" information.
Jan 20, 2012, 6:56 am
#67
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I just caught this. You're completely mistaken here. Yes, the natives are provincial (as I noted above), but I always meet lots of people who have recently moved to Philly from other cities. Amazingly, developers are still building new homes and condos in the city and these new properties are still selling (albeit at post-bubble pricing!).
Jan 20, 2012, 8:47 am
#68
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PHL
Posts: 3,113
You might be surprised. First, int'l travel is very difficult out of PHL -- especially for leisure travel. You can often save 35% by heading to the NYC airports or, less commonly, WAS. US has a near monopoly on such service from PHL, which isn't all that extensive and is almost ALWAYS expensive.
Domestic is a different ballgame, but I'm sure there's some seepage to nearby cities in search of lower airfares. I know as a CO plat, I've headed to EWR from Philly to get better service (and, hopefully, an upgrade) on their transcons.
Domestic is a different ballgame, but I'm sure there's some seepage to nearby cities in search of lower airfares. I know as a CO plat, I've headed to EWR from Philly to get better service (and, hopefully, an upgrade) on their transcons.
I am about 30 mins from PHL and 1 hr 45 mins from EWR by car, but Amtrak (when it runs on time) shaves about 15 mins off the trip and allows me to work. The extra 45 mins for such a long trip doesn't make a difference one way or another.
Yes, Philadelphia has a reputation (not unjustly earned) of being rather provincial. It's a declining metropolis, so almost nobody moves there. So you don't have a population "on the move." I am certain it has a comparative low "active passport" ratio. Nor is it a major tourist destination (despite being the location of the founding of our country). A rather mediocre but decent sized market. For better or worse, US is probably the right airline for the market (lower cost, so it can sustain lower yields and lots of connecting traffic).
What makes Philly seem provincial is that, compared to New York or Boston, a lot of people grow up there and stay there. (About half of our neighbors are the second or third owners of their houses; our neighborhood was built in the 1940s). But we meet plenty of people from somewhere else who have relocated here, either in college or for work.
Jan 20, 2012, 8:54 am
#69
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 2,842
I think it is interesting that for it's size PHL doesn't generate the high yielding pax that it should. I don't think there is one specific reason why it doesn't, but it just doesn't. Out of the whole BOS/NYC/PHL/WAS - California market PHL has by far the fewest seats and likely near the bottom of the list in premium seats offered. For it's size PHL should be able to handle a multitude of airlines (the likes of FL, WN, B6, VX, etc.) however it seems like US somehow continues to dominate. This is good for US but not necessarily for the airport. I don't know what US's pax number at PHL have been but as a whole the airport has declined over the past 5 years since WN's entrance so it is not like US carries more and more paxs each year.
The connecting pax number Virgin threw out is interesting. I don't think it's their key to success but an interesting fact about the market if it is indeed valid.
PHL has become a small hotspot (relatively speaking) for production companies over the past 5 years or so, however with its proximity to NYC, I wouldn't be surprised if many people make quick trips to/from NYC for other work related things and just fly in/out of NYC.
PHL hardly loses many paxs to Spirit in ACY. Spirit has what, 10 flts a day, pretty much all to Florida.
The connecting pax number Virgin threw out is interesting. I don't think it's their key to success but an interesting fact about the market if it is indeed valid.
PHL has become a small hotspot (relatively speaking) for production companies over the past 5 years or so, however with its proximity to NYC, I wouldn't be surprised if many people make quick trips to/from NYC for other work related things and just fly in/out of NYC.
PHL hardly loses many paxs to Spirit in ACY. Spirit has what, 10 flts a day, pretty much all to Florida.
Jan 20, 2012, 9:15 am
#70
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How many flights a day does VX have to SEA from LAX/SFO? Having a MX isn't a realy issue since there is another flight leaving for each city a couple of hours later.
West coast to PHL how many flights a day? One from each city, so if you have a MX that will piss off a lot of people. WIth US if they have a MX, they will sub a aircraft and might have an hour delay. Like I said, if WN can't make it work VX wont either?
BTW, how many routes has VX dropped because it wasn't making money?
West coast to PHL how many flights a day? One from each city, so if you have a MX that will piss off a lot of people. WIth US if they have a MX, they will sub a aircraft and might have an hour delay. Like I said, if WN can't make it work VX wont either?
BTW, how many routes has VX dropped because it wasn't making money?
Jan 20, 2012, 9:37 am
#71
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Others have already pointed out that Philly is not declining in population (though certainly not growing as fast as, say, Houston or Phoenix). It is also one of the 10 most-visited US cities (or at least was in 2009, according to Forbes). It had more visitors than Dallas, San Diego, or Seattle. It is thus incorrect to say that it is not a major tourist destination, unless you have a very narrow definition of "major".
That has nothing do with its appeal to people who have to get on a plane to get to the East Coast. (But general surveys like "most visited city" don't break down visitors who visit because it's within driving distance and vistors who choose to visit even though it's a flying effort.)
All the other cities you mention are not in huge population clusters. There's nothing except SoCal that's close to San Diego, nothing except Houston and San Antonio that are close to Dallas/Fort Worth, and nothing except Vancouver BC and Portland that are (not all that) close to Seattle.
I wonder where Philly would stand on a list of "most often visited cities by people who live more than 500 miles away"?
Certainly when I lived in the DC area I visited Philly (or its suburbs) once every few years. Since moving to SoCal in 1984, I've visisted only two more times. There are now many cities in the country I've visited more times than Philly since being on the West Coast, even though Phllly may have been in my top 5 when I lived in DC.
But, of course, when I lived in DC I simply drove for a couple hours. When I lived in SoCal, I always flew to visit.
(I threw out "500 miles" because for SF from LA sometimes I'll fly but sometimes I'll drive, so I figure you need even further than that distance befrore people will mostly fly.)
Jan 20, 2012, 9:45 am
#72
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But how much of that is land-based visits "just because it's close". I think for many people who live on the East Coast, it's like, "we've already been to NYC a number of times, already been to DC a number times, already been to Boston a few times, where can we go now? Oh, yes, there's Philly, and it's not that far!"
I wonder where Philly would stand on a list of "most often visited cities by people who live more than 500 miles away"?
I wonder where Philly would stand on a list of "most often visited cities by people who live more than 500 miles away"?
Jan 20, 2012, 9:53 am
#73
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And US can't always just "sub" another A321 when another is in a MX. It's not as if US just leaves extra planes hanging around for MX's at all times.
Jan 20, 2012, 10:38 am
#74
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From a big hub like PHL, CLT or PHX they can and often do sub a plane if there looks like a MX issue is going to take too long. I see it happen frequently when extended delays are expected on a specific flight.
Jan 20, 2012, 11:09 am
#75
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Case in point I once had an Monday 8am ORD-MSP UA flt cancel due to maintenance. They had no aircraft to sub in and the next flt they could put me on was the next day. So it does happen.
Last edited by nova08; Jan 20, 2012 at 11:14 am