When is Enough, ENOUGH?
May 23, 2006, 11:15 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mystic island, nj, USA
Posts: 2,377
When is Enough, ENOUGH?
Folks those of us are members of FFOCUS have remained relatively silent, preferring to take a "Wait & See" attitude.
I think given this latest go around those of you not in FFOCUS may want to join us and become more vocal in our desire to see US Airways be successful. The Ivory Tower approach from the Sandcastle is in a word "Troubling" to me and I think it is time to re energize and re focus our efforts. The cockroachs were successful because we made our opinions known outside of this narrow forum.
I think it's time Ladies & Gents. Time to be heard loud and long if need be.
I think given this latest go around those of you not in FFOCUS may want to join us and become more vocal in our desire to see US Airways be successful. The Ivory Tower approach from the Sandcastle is in a word "Troubling" to me and I think it is time to re energize and re focus our efforts. The cockroachs were successful because we made our opinions known outside of this narrow forum.
I think it's time Ladies & Gents. Time to be heard loud and long if need be.
May 23, 2006, 11:36 am
#2
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Whitehall, PA, USA
Programs: HHonors Gold
Posts: 580
What is the Ffocus list of grievances?
For me, I can live with alot but dropping the GP bonus to 50% is the key. I flew more EQMs last year than I ever did before - almost 94K and for that I get an enhancement to Platinum where I get 25% less bonus miles.
Gee guys, thanks alot.
For me, I can live with alot but dropping the GP bonus to 50% is the key. I flew more EQMs last year than I ever did before - almost 94K and for that I get an enhancement to Platinum where I get 25% less bonus miles.
Gee guys, thanks alot.
May 23, 2006, 12:34 pm
#3
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Programs: US1
Posts: 1,928
Bob,
Well I think we need to make a stand now. I am already booking away from the US Airways website. It makes me very angry how these guys could have put a website out there with the amount of bugs it has. I do not put the blame on the IT guys. I am an IT person myself and I know what pressure it is to have on you to get something out there. What PROBABLY did happen is that the IT personnel said to management that the site was still not ready. Management probably told them to put it out there anyway.
What a dumb move! Tempe could have asked for the elites help and sent us all an E mail with the beta website and feedback. This could have gone much smoother for the launch of the website.
Even though CCY was terrible at many things. They did take the time to actually hear what we had to say. These guys in Sandy land seem to be ignoring us.
T
Well I think we need to make a stand now. I am already booking away from the US Airways website. It makes me very angry how these guys could have put a website out there with the amount of bugs it has. I do not put the blame on the IT guys. I am an IT person myself and I know what pressure it is to have on you to get something out there. What PROBABLY did happen is that the IT personnel said to management that the site was still not ready. Management probably told them to put it out there anyway.
What a dumb move! Tempe could have asked for the elites help and sent us all an E mail with the beta website and feedback. This could have gone much smoother for the launch of the website.
Even though CCY was terrible at many things. They did take the time to actually hear what we had to say. These guys in Sandy land seem to be ignoring us.
T
May 23, 2006, 3:28 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ZRH
Posts: 659
Originally Posted by sassamanlaw
What is the Ffocus list of grievances?
May 23, 2006, 4:42 pm
#5
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
On a marginally related note, what saddens me about this merger is my beloved hometown of Tempe is now having it's name used in a derogitory fashion. Everytime something bad happens to this airline I read "Those idiots in Tempe" or similar, people must be getting a bad idea of my home base
May 23, 2006, 4:44 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DUB
Programs: Marriott Plat., DL/AA/BA
Posts: 202
Agreed. See my other postings. I am headed to the Marine terminal if things don't change. Change to FF program mileage accrual and qualification levels are number one issue for me.
May 23, 2006, 4:58 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: US CP, *wood Gold, Marriott gold, Hilton something
Posts: 1,458
I'm about at the end of my rope. In just the 3+ years I've watched US change from the pedimont prestige that I remember form a kid to southwest with an attitude.
I'd be more than happy to support FOCUS or write a letter (or series of em)
For me its:
1) service - its just rude these days and I'm sorry but that doesnt fly. The whole "its not my job" attitude is out of control. What happened to people who try and solve problems?
2) devaluation of elete levels (introduction of Plat, etc)
I'd be more than happy to support FOCUS or write a letter (or series of em)
For me its:
1) service - its just rude these days and I'm sorry but that doesnt fly. The whole "its not my job" attitude is out of control. What happened to people who try and solve problems?
2) devaluation of elete levels (introduction of Plat, etc)
May 23, 2006, 5:13 pm
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Nantucket, MA USA
Programs: AA-Gold, DL-Flying Colonel, CO-Platinum, HP-Platinum, US-Chairman's Preferred.
Posts: 509
Wowwwwww. I did not need it, but it is nice to receive so much affirmation for the suggestive and corrective posts that I have made to this board. It is entertaining for me that almost all of the mouthy and blind "US can do no wrong" folks have been dead silent for 3 days.
This carrier can reverse its course, and get ethical, during the next week or I do believe we should correct its course for them. What I have observed and heard from flyers...in airports and on aircraft...during the last three days is astounding.
Their stock is now measurable below my short position, so I am smiling at the 4 people who deluded themselves into believing that I have rocks in my head.
FFOCUS, here I come! I will help in any way possible.
This carrier can reverse its course, and get ethical, during the next week or I do believe we should correct its course for them. What I have observed and heard from flyers...in airports and on aircraft...during the last three days is astounding.
Their stock is now measurable below my short position, so I am smiling at the 4 people who deluded themselves into believing that I have rocks in my head.
FFOCUS, here I come! I will help in any way possible.
May 23, 2006, 5:16 pm
#9
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
Programs: AA EXP/LT PLT, DL PM, UA Silver, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,510
Sure, we all have grievances. I STILL can't even look at my account on the website. At all. Stupid.
... however, they've shown again and again that they don't care, and don't need the former US Elites. How is FFOCUS going to change that? (I mean this as a serious question for y'all, especially Bob)
... however, they've shown again and again that they don't care, and don't need the former US Elites. How is FFOCUS going to change that? (I mean this as a serious question for y'all, especially Bob)
May 23, 2006, 5:40 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mystic island, nj, USA
Posts: 2,377
Originally Posted by McFlyPHL
however, they've shown again and again that they don't care, and don't need the former US Elites. How is FFOCUS going to change that? (I mean this as a serious question for y'all, especially Bob)
I've no idea except to say that if we don't band together and speak up for ourselves then we have a 100% chance of having no impact of any kind.
I live in PHL, I don't desire to connect anymore than I have to so I choose to fight. There are many tools at our disposal and there is strength in numbers. Join us if you like.
Above all speak out.
May 23, 2006, 5:57 pm
#11
Suspended
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Programs: US Airways (*A) Gold, United, Priority Club Platinum, Starwood Preferred, HHonors Gold, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 302
Here we go again...... 
The results of effecting change by the Twinkies at FFOCUS with the old US was less than zero other than getting your names in the papers and making some members feel like insiders on the backs of and in the name of the rest of us. Do we really have to go through this again?
I need to book PHL - CDG and the web site is down so I will call to book my ticket. Simple and without the constant complaining. Did not start a web site or issued press releases. Not happy with US? Delta is waiting for your business....
The results of effecting change by the Twinkies at FFOCUS with the old US was less than zero other than getting your names in the papers and making some members feel like insiders on the backs of and in the name of the rest of us. Do we really have to go through this again?
I need to book PHL - CDG and the web site is down so I will call to book my ticket. Simple and without the constant complaining. Did not start a web site or issued press releases. Not happy with US? Delta is waiting for your business....
May 23, 2006, 6:10 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mystic island, nj, USA
Posts: 2,377
Originally Posted by phillyd2
Here we go again......
The results of effecting change by the Twinkies at FFOCUS with the old US was less than zero other than getting your names in the papers and making some members feel like insiders on the backs of and in the name of the rest of us. Do we really have to go through this again?
I need to book PHL - CDG and the web site is down so I will call to book my ticket. Simple and without the constant complaining. Did not start a web site or issued press releases. Not happy with US? Delta is waiting for your business....
The results of effecting change by the Twinkies at FFOCUS with the old US was less than zero other than getting your names in the papers and making some members feel like insiders on the backs of and in the name of the rest of us. Do we really have to go through this again?
I need to book PHL - CDG and the web site is down so I will call to book my ticket. Simple and without the constant complaining. Did not start a web site or issued press releases. Not happy with US? Delta is waiting for your business....
I could list several accomplishments but you wouldn't buy into it anyway. So that's life.
May 23, 2006, 6:11 pm
#13
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Athens, WV, USA; a US cockroach long before it was in FFOCUS; now a lowly US5 for only the 2nd time in 20 years.
Programs: US5
Posts: 3,050
As a reminder, joining FFOCUS is simple. Go to www.ffocus.org, click on "Join FFOCUS" on the side menu and follow the directions. I will email you the info for the secret handshake. 
May 23, 2006, 6:12 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,242
Bob,
I've been sitting back and watching everything since the start of the merger. The entire process has become the equivalent to death by a thousand paper cuts. Each change by itself isn't an issue, but all together it is a deadly combination. I am sick of their arrogance and we know it all attitude.
For example I recently flew PHL->TPA it was blocked at 2:50, so there was no meal in F or any buy on board. Didn’t matter that it was a 7:40am departure from PHL. I was lucky I had enough time to get breakfast from the food court. F just had the snack basket. My return flight had just the same, when in the past I would have had a snack in F. Now, this change did have to be a big deal. I can solve it very easily in a manner that would, at least, made me happy. All you have to do is add packaged muffins or donut sticks to the snack basket and presto you have an instant continental breakfast. True they may have to take out another item to accommodate it, but it gives the perception that you are looking out for your first class customer. You could add something similar that would be a decent snack for lunch, all it has to be is shelf stable and you leave it in the basket the entire time.
Personally, I feel they need to start with the basics. If I initiate a contact with your customer service department I want a response in a timely manner. If it is via e-mail, I at least want an automated response saying that the message was received and we will get back to you in 30 days or so. I'm tired of e-mails and letters and calls going into a black hole.
That isn't rocket science; it's call common courtesy. I may not like the answer they give me but I want some type of answer in a timely manner. This is number one on my list because if affect all of their customers not just the elites.
Second, they are a legacy carrier in LCC clothing. They need to be true to themselves. If you are going to promote yourself as a low cost full service airline then they need to act like it. That means fare rationalization. When it costs $2000 to fly in F between point ABE to point B via PHL, and the cost out of PHL is $900 in F to point B and the ABE to PHL USX flight for a full Y is $600 to connect to the same flights, there is a problem. If I’m going to pay the same amount or more as I would on UA, then I want UA level service.
I've asked Tempe, with the changes they've made to their program and the airline, why as a CP should I continue to fly US? I've told them that in order to keep my business they need to answer that very simple question. I don't think it is an unreasonable question, but when I've asked it I've gotten silence in return.
Let's look at this logically:
If I fly CO, I get a traditional meal in Y, 100% bonus miles at mid level, and 125% miles at their top level elite status. I still get the unlimited domestic upgrades as I go with US. They even provide a 50% bonus in status miles on their full fares.
NW is the same as CO without the traditional meal service in Y.
DL is very similar to NW and CO except they top out at 100% bonus miles for all of their elites.
AA gives mid and top level 100% bonus miles and you earn 500 mile upgrade certificates. They give their top level 8 SWU.
If I fly UA, I get 100% bonus miles at mid level and 6 SWU at their top elite level. Additional I have the potential to earn 2 more SWU for every 50,000 status miles I earn beyond the 100,000 miles. They still give bonus status miles on Y & B fares. They are rewarding people that give them more money then may be necessary for a Y ticket.
If I fly US, as a GP I would get only 50% bonus miles. I get no bonus for flying on a Y or B fares. As an elite I get unlimited upgrades, but with many of the routes going to RJs what good is this benefit if you can't use it? I get 2 Transatlantic upgrades from US.
What I am seeing is not a reduction of cost with little reduction in value. I’m seeing a reduction in what I perceive as having value without a corresponding reduction in my cost.
I'm paying the same or more to fly on US then any of the other carrier, from all of the airports I can get two by driving two hours or less, and I am getting less then I would at any other carrier. Enough is enough. If they can't answer the simple question "Why as a CP should I continue to fly US with the changes they made to the program?" They don't deserve my business.
I can answer that same question in a heartbeat to all of my customers in my line of work. They may not agree with my answer but I can give them an answer as to what I believe the value is. Tempe is either unable to respond or unwilling to respond to a basic question.
They are acting like they don't want VFFs to fly them. There are primarily two different types of customers: transaction and relationship. A transactional customer is one who is primarily interested in price. They have no loyalty. This type of customer will leave you for a penny’s difference in price. They may spend hours on the Internet researching before they buy to make sure they get the best deal.
The other types of customers are the relationship customers. These are people who are looking for a company that they can trust. They are seeking companies with reliable products – people who recognize them, remember them, do favors for them, who build a relationship with them. Once this type of customer has found a supplier they tend to give them most of their business. They know they could save money by shopping around but they find the process wastes too much time and emotional energy. This type of customer if properly cultivated, will stay with your company for a lifetime. Most of the mid and top tier elites fit into this category.
Relationship customers stop buying when as a company you stop loving them as a customer. This is why many of them, myself included, were willing to put up with such things during the two bankruptcies, such as dirty planes, and InFlight Café in first class. Right now as a VFF, I feel like I am being handed my hat and as such I am walking towards the door. Once I leave, how many other customers will US have to attract to replace the business I gave them? It is always cheaper to retain an existing customer then to attract new ones.
As long as the fares are equal to the other majors, and the other majors are providing a superior service or benefits at the same price point. It is no longer worth flying on US and once VFFs start building a relationship with another company it will be very expensive to try and get them to return.
Last year at this point I had flown over 52,000 miles. This year 2,500. Last year I ended up around 102,000 and just made CP again. This year, I'm going to be lucky if I get silver. Throughout BK1 & 2 I stuck with them. I didn't think there would be anything that could make me jump ship. Then I ran into ....
You gotta know when to hold them and when to fold them. I'm looking at the hand they've dealt and I'm folding. I'm cashing out, it's not worth it dealing with their management any more because they don't seem to want to listen to their customers. I've started to burn miles, when their gone so am I. It's not too late for them, if they want to keep me as a customer all they have to do is show some semblance of being willing to listen to their customers. I don't think that's asking to much to keep my business.
I've been sitting back and watching everything since the start of the merger. The entire process has become the equivalent to death by a thousand paper cuts. Each change by itself isn't an issue, but all together it is a deadly combination. I am sick of their arrogance and we know it all attitude.
For example I recently flew PHL->TPA it was blocked at 2:50, so there was no meal in F or any buy on board. Didn’t matter that it was a 7:40am departure from PHL. I was lucky I had enough time to get breakfast from the food court. F just had the snack basket. My return flight had just the same, when in the past I would have had a snack in F. Now, this change did have to be a big deal. I can solve it very easily in a manner that would, at least, made me happy. All you have to do is add packaged muffins or donut sticks to the snack basket and presto you have an instant continental breakfast. True they may have to take out another item to accommodate it, but it gives the perception that you are looking out for your first class customer. You could add something similar that would be a decent snack for lunch, all it has to be is shelf stable and you leave it in the basket the entire time.
Personally, I feel they need to start with the basics. If I initiate a contact with your customer service department I want a response in a timely manner. If it is via e-mail, I at least want an automated response saying that the message was received and we will get back to you in 30 days or so. I'm tired of e-mails and letters and calls going into a black hole.
That isn't rocket science; it's call common courtesy. I may not like the answer they give me but I want some type of answer in a timely manner. This is number one on my list because if affect all of their customers not just the elites.
Second, they are a legacy carrier in LCC clothing. They need to be true to themselves. If you are going to promote yourself as a low cost full service airline then they need to act like it. That means fare rationalization. When it costs $2000 to fly in F between point ABE to point B via PHL, and the cost out of PHL is $900 in F to point B and the ABE to PHL USX flight for a full Y is $600 to connect to the same flights, there is a problem. If I’m going to pay the same amount or more as I would on UA, then I want UA level service.
I've asked Tempe, with the changes they've made to their program and the airline, why as a CP should I continue to fly US? I've told them that in order to keep my business they need to answer that very simple question. I don't think it is an unreasonable question, but when I've asked it I've gotten silence in return.
Let's look at this logically:
If I fly CO, I get a traditional meal in Y, 100% bonus miles at mid level, and 125% miles at their top level elite status. I still get the unlimited domestic upgrades as I go with US. They even provide a 50% bonus in status miles on their full fares.
NW is the same as CO without the traditional meal service in Y.
DL is very similar to NW and CO except they top out at 100% bonus miles for all of their elites.
AA gives mid and top level 100% bonus miles and you earn 500 mile upgrade certificates. They give their top level 8 SWU.
If I fly UA, I get 100% bonus miles at mid level and 6 SWU at their top elite level. Additional I have the potential to earn 2 more SWU for every 50,000 status miles I earn beyond the 100,000 miles. They still give bonus status miles on Y & B fares. They are rewarding people that give them more money then may be necessary for a Y ticket.
If I fly US, as a GP I would get only 50% bonus miles. I get no bonus for flying on a Y or B fares. As an elite I get unlimited upgrades, but with many of the routes going to RJs what good is this benefit if you can't use it? I get 2 Transatlantic upgrades from US.
What I am seeing is not a reduction of cost with little reduction in value. I’m seeing a reduction in what I perceive as having value without a corresponding reduction in my cost.
I'm paying the same or more to fly on US then any of the other carrier, from all of the airports I can get two by driving two hours or less, and I am getting less then I would at any other carrier. Enough is enough. If they can't answer the simple question "Why as a CP should I continue to fly US with the changes they made to the program?" They don't deserve my business.
I can answer that same question in a heartbeat to all of my customers in my line of work. They may not agree with my answer but I can give them an answer as to what I believe the value is. Tempe is either unable to respond or unwilling to respond to a basic question.
They are acting like they don't want VFFs to fly them. There are primarily two different types of customers: transaction and relationship. A transactional customer is one who is primarily interested in price. They have no loyalty. This type of customer will leave you for a penny’s difference in price. They may spend hours on the Internet researching before they buy to make sure they get the best deal.
The other types of customers are the relationship customers. These are people who are looking for a company that they can trust. They are seeking companies with reliable products – people who recognize them, remember them, do favors for them, who build a relationship with them. Once this type of customer has found a supplier they tend to give them most of their business. They know they could save money by shopping around but they find the process wastes too much time and emotional energy. This type of customer if properly cultivated, will stay with your company for a lifetime. Most of the mid and top tier elites fit into this category.
Relationship customers stop buying when as a company you stop loving them as a customer. This is why many of them, myself included, were willing to put up with such things during the two bankruptcies, such as dirty planes, and InFlight Café in first class. Right now as a VFF, I feel like I am being handed my hat and as such I am walking towards the door. Once I leave, how many other customers will US have to attract to replace the business I gave them? It is always cheaper to retain an existing customer then to attract new ones.
As long as the fares are equal to the other majors, and the other majors are providing a superior service or benefits at the same price point. It is no longer worth flying on US and once VFFs start building a relationship with another company it will be very expensive to try and get them to return.
Last year at this point I had flown over 52,000 miles. This year 2,500. Last year I ended up around 102,000 and just made CP again. This year, I'm going to be lucky if I get silver. Throughout BK1 & 2 I stuck with them. I didn't think there would be anything that could make me jump ship. Then I ran into ....
You gotta know when to hold them and when to fold them. I'm looking at the hand they've dealt and I'm folding. I'm cashing out, it's not worth it dealing with their management any more because they don't seem to want to listen to their customers. I've started to burn miles, when their gone so am I. It's not too late for them, if they want to keep me as a customer all they have to do is show some semblance of being willing to listen to their customers. I don't think that's asking to much to keep my business.
Last edited by wr_schwab; May 23, 2006 at 6:21 pm
May 23, 2006, 6:13 pm
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HKY
Programs: DL-DM MM & RW, UAL- PS, Marriott Lifetime PLT, SPG-PLT, Hilton-Gold
Posts: 4,468
Originally Posted by phillyd2
Here we go again......
The results of effecting change by the Twinkies at FFOCUS with the old US was less than zero other than getting your names in the papers and making some members feel like insiders on the backs of and in the name of the rest of us. Do we really have to go through this again?
I need to book PHL - CDG and the web site is down so I will call to book my ticket. Simple and without the constant complaining. Did not start a web site or issued press releases. Not happy with US? Delta is waiting for your business....
The results of effecting change by the Twinkies at FFOCUS with the old US was less than zero other than getting your names in the papers and making some members feel like insiders on the backs of and in the name of the rest of us. Do we really have to go through this again?
I need to book PHL - CDG and the web site is down so I will call to book my ticket. Simple and without the constant complaining. Did not start a web site or issued press releases. Not happy with US? Delta is waiting for your business....
As to your suggestion, DL and I have been getting along just fine, but I happen to have a case of lipstick around here some where just itching for new home. Haven't had a good spat with anyone in the airline business since Lime Boy left. I've been saving up on the popcorn too. Want me to send you some? I hear you have acquired a taste for it......