phillyman

Hi all,

I fly this route pretty often (once a month) and used to get the go envoy upgrade for 500 bucks which was first raised to 600 and now to 700!

I assume they changed their policy when baggage fees etc. went up.

My question is about the plane itself. I think it's a Boeing 767 and I'm surprised that the seat rows aren't sliding around! The plane is antiquated, sounds awful and business is pretty much a joke! I flew a newer airbus from frankfurt last week and liked the "new business" but read that had more to do with the plane than anything else.

Does anyone know/heard about a new plane for Zurich? I would assume with the pharmaceutical companies and other lucrative businesses in Switzerland, it would be more lucrative to upgrade to a newer plane and charge more.

A colleague was booked through Swiss on this flight and had a fit about the state in economy. I have to agree I already had personal monitors with BA in the mid nineties in economy.

A flight attendant thought they had delayed delivery of the airbuses. Last time I used miles I flew Swiss and really enjoyed their business from JFK (WOW!) for 100'000 miles (roundtrip) but JFK ->PHL is a non starter... Plus direct flight just is better... Hoping someone can give me an idea on how long we have to suffer this POS between Philly and Zurich...

On that note... AND off topic, what is the status of buying American (PLEASE NO!)? Two wrongs do not make a right ;-)


Thanks for the info,

Philly

kochleffel

I recently made an award booking for #711 for July 2013, and it's listed as a 767 then.

Air Rarotonga

Same for the DL flights to ATL and JFK...

They offer only the very outdated Business Elite Seats...

phillyman

Depressing but thanks ;-)
Philly

phlwookie

Given some of the banking traffic on this route I've often wondered why they would send an A330-200 to BCN but not ZRH. Landing fees maybe? I don't know. They do have some more A332s being delivered next year though, so perhaps we'll see one on this route.

perseus11

Since the annual Yield data for this flight is not available, it's tough to determine its worth. If I were US or DL, or ?, I'd not waste my prime resources attempting to compete with SWISS, but instead fly to ZRH primarily to offer my network access to a major European city. In DL's case, they don't even have alliance relationships in ZRH. To place a 332 on this route, US would likely need significant and continuous long term commercial contracts for Envoy, which may be difficult to obtain on the ZRH end because of the swiss dedication to their Flag Carrier - and its quality of services. Almost 65% of all traffic from Switzerland to the U.S. is on relatively small Swiss. Additionally, *A FFs favoring Swiss in the Philadelphia metro area can easily access their EWR flight, via direct train connection. Incidentally, SWISS used to fly PHL-BOS-ZRH with a 333.

phillyman

Hmmm, interesting points but I'll differ on some aspects (just for arguments sake based only on my opinion).

With Lufthansa full in FRA and MUC they seem to be dumping some traffic on ZRH. Also a fair number of transit passengers have been on my flights. Makes sense, ZRH being a pretty good transit airport with not many delays by either strikes, weather, etc. In terms of star alliance it would make sense to connect two hubs directly and since they code share with Swiss; upgrade the plane! During the Lufthansa strike this year, they REALLY were happy to have ZRH/Swiss to get the elite members on the 711 flight. Never seen so many chairman and senator members on one plane ;-)

I do agree that the business folk probably use the business only EWR flight (if Swiss still have that). But there are at least two fairly large Swiss companies (or in Synthes case former Swiss) in King of Prussia.

The one correction is that Swiss never flew to PHL (to my knowledge and with an airbus?). You are remembering the Swissair connection which was flown with a 747 (LOVED that flight). First it was all passenger (usually about 50 people BOS-PHL-BOS). During the layover you had to stay on board and watch the ground crew do their stuff (fun to watch). For awhile upper deck was Economy! Then they moved the Swiss mail/cargo and reconfigured to cargo/passenger. About a year before they went bankrupt. It was cancelled and since they still had a contract with USPS/Swiss postal service, the mail went to EWR and was then driven by truck to PHL for sorting! No wonder they went belly up with that management!

Delta/ATL I feel is still a leftover from the Global Excellence and Qualiflyer alliances. I understand that for them they do not treat ZRH as a premier destination.

Cheers,
Philly

phlwookie

True, but its also interesting that they run this flight yearround, and that ZRH is a Star hub, and not a bad one to connect in at that, so it would seem to have some decent yields. That said, it's often not too hard to get at least Y award seats on 710/711. This makes a good connection option to other Star carriers for economy awards but may indicate lower loads in the back.

I agree that to effectively compete with Swiss for premium traffic, US needs to be flying there with the new Envoy suite, not the 767.

I do not consider EWR to be an easy option for much of the PHL area, even with the EWR Rail Station, especially if you're south or west of the city. It might be if there were less Transatlantic options at PHL, but it's usually really not necessary to go to EWR for a TATL flight from Philly.

FlyIgglesFly

FYI, the LX flight out of EWR is no longer all business, it's operated by a 3 class 343 now.

Air Rarotonga

Correct! 15 years ago it was a real sensation, when DL introduced it's Business Elite. Much better product than SR's old seats in the 743 or M11.

But today DL is competing vs LX and *A, so I don't really understand, why they don't fly a better and more competitive product to ZRH. Sure, it just takes some time, then DL will have reconfigured it's 20y old 763 flleet with lie-flat beds...

phillyman

I agree with the other posters. It has always surprised me that ZRH does not get any quality planes from the US carriers. Anyone of them could probably capture a nice share. I would bet that most serious frequent flyers would prefer going through ZRH than CDG, FRA or LHR IF they need to transfer. Key criteria being less likely to be delayed,hassled and short connections. Since the ground crews are Swiss they speak lots of languages , are very knowledgeable AND extremely polite! The only thing I seriously dislike is their bizarre dock midfield (newest one), where I have to take their idiotic train (even worse sound effects). Best part no lounge access out there for Swiss or their own alliance partners.

It doesn't get more central for Europe, strong market to try to get return legs. Singapore even has an a380 and Emirates etc. fly nice planes. Then again they don't have any bad planes :-) !

Ah well, I just hope that ZRH is on the top of the list for newer planes...

kochleffel

That's one of the reasons that I booked my award flight in economy, not envoy -- it didn't seem worth the extra miles. My inbound flight is to MUC in a 330, and I did book envoy for that.

fkaway

Just returned in Eco PHL-ZRH I sincerely hope that one day in the near or distant future this horrible B767 will be replaced. Haven't been to or seen such a out-worn interior like seats and cracks in the wall for a looong time

Even think that low-cost carrier Easyjet UK has nicer maintained seats and walls than US is using to force people to fly to/from ZRH. What a shame!

Luckily I received special meal on request, only positive side besides the OK US Envoy lounge in PHL before flight and earlier arrival in ZRH.

And sincerely appreciated access to LX Arrival Lounge (due to LX SEN, first timer to this lounge) with clean and modern showers and good service in the morning. ^

US will hopefully replace or refurbish the B767 (unfortunately, next flight back from PHL will be on B757 to BRU

Alphaguy

Don't raise your expectations too much from the US 767 to the US 757. Just be thankful its no the old AmericaWest 757 used for the Hawaii flights....

BoeingBoy

I assume that ZRH doesn't have the demand for a larger plane than the 767. With 7 A332's in the fleet and 5 more coming this year, there are certainly planes coming to put an A332 on that route if there were demand for the extra seats.

The 767's do have the next to newest Envoy seats, having been refitted with the "flat on a slant" seats since the US/HP merger. The 757's have the oldest, using the original Envoy seats that date to the late 90's.

Jim