yourreturn

First, thank you in advance for any advice.
Here is the brief story.

A US Air Flight from CHO to PVD through PHL (Philadelphia) this past June.

1. I did not get a seat assigned for first leg, which was at 5:40am.
2. I arrived at airport and was told "weight restricted" and was denied boarding.
3. Airline's new policy is to not offer vouchers for other people to get off the plane.
4. I arrived 5+ hours late and missed most of the day of the workshop I was attending.

Some thoughts:

• I paid at least $250 extra for this particular flight vs. equivalent flights.
• The computer denied me boarding probably because I bought the ticket later than other people?? I could reserve seats on all the other legs.
• The person at the airport says this happens almost every day.
• It costs AA lots of extra money to screw over people every day, rather than offering vouchers or just not booking the seats that are constantly weight restricted.
• The customer service offered me a 200 voucher. Agreed that it was a bad experience and should not have happened. But in no way was going to be otherwise responsible for the situation.

The issues I have:
AA should not have sold me a ticket it had no intention of filling. It seems like I was given a seat that was marked as weight restricted so the computer knew in advance I was not likely to be boarded.

If they do this for larger planes, they owe the customer a refund of the leg up to 400%.

My questions:
Do I have a case I can win in small claims court?

How do I get copies of the flight information to prove this flight is regularly weight restricted? I want to argue that since the weight restriction is a common occurrence, that I am due denied boarding compensation because it is not "just the weather."

How do I argue this case, laws violated?
This happened in Virginia, so they may have violated state laws as well?

I feel like I have been taken advantage of and that something wrong happened here. I did not get the ticket I paid for and AA should not have sold the ticket it did not intend to fulfill.

again, thank you and I really appreciate your help.

hiima

You won't win in small claims court and you're gonna waste your time. If you were really involuntary denied boarding, file with the DOT, which should get you 400% of your ticket. I would just take the voucher and call it a day. Arriving 5 hours late and missing your workshop is your fault, you should've planned to arrive the day before or something. You're seeking validation for your reasoning to go to small claims court, nobody here will give you that. <redacted>

3Cforme

Before pursuing this you should get familiar with the U.S. DOT's exemption from compensation for weight and balance issues for small aircraft.

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking

You should also understand that commercial air passenger transportation is federally regulated so a suit in state court is likely to be tossed.

JDiver

The weight restriction could have been imposed the day of flight due to en route weather, fuel load, weight and balance issues etc. or a combination thereof. I doubt you can make a case AA/US is conspiring or fraudulently selling seats.

You may have been barred flying because you arrived later or other factors. I think you'll waste less time and effort following 3Cforme's and hiima's suggestions. AA doesn't permit consequential damages, so you'll get nothing for missing part of a conference.

As to missing a conference, as a retired "road warrior" for thirty years all I can say is flying and planning to attend a conference or servicing a client the same morning is deficient planning, IMO.

adambrock

This. If you file in small claims court it will likely get moved to federal court. Also my understanding is airlines are exempt from most common law provisions, such as good faith and fair dealing.

If you do go ahead with a suit, you can get the information you're requesting through the discovery process. You could use interrogatories or requests for production of documents to get that information.

aves17

It would largely depend on the claim being asserted, the damages being sought (in excess of $75k can be federal jurisdiction), where the individual resides vs where the airline's principal place of business is, and a myriad of other factors. The biggest issue OP is going to run into is his contract of carriage with the airline likely has a venue provision that provides if he's going to sue, it has to be brought in a certain jurisdiction (I would guess Dallas/Fort Worth or Miami, but it could be elsewhere). If it doesn't have a venue provision, I can all but guarantee it has some form of binding arbitration/mediation provision in lieu of suit. If OP files and there is an arbitration/mediation provision, OP can expect a motion to dismiss for failure to comply with conditions precedent to filing suit. That doesn't even take into account the fact that weight restrictions on flights have exemptions and AA will play the "passenger safety" card, which is hard to argue against.

In short OP, your time and money are better spent trying to negotiate something better with the airline via email or phone calls then bringing suit.

GregL

As you were on a plane with fewer than 61 seats, you are not entitled to denied boarding compensation due "safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints", per the US Department of Transportation.

That by itself, is the end of your lawsuit.

Greg

dll

I have learned something here about the DOT's criteria:

"If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints."

I did not know either of these facts. Yet another reason to avoid small regional jets.

There was a time on Delta, just my luck, that on several trips I had equipment swaps at the last minute (always to smaller planes). The worst example was a fully booked A330 ATL-LAX swapped for a 757, a net loss of about 50-60 seats (as I recall). I was one of the "left behind" folks and did not know they were relieved of responsibility merely due to swapping to a smaller plane. It had been swapped due to a mechanical on the A330. I was rebooked on a later flight with food voucher, and know I know the rule behind it! Sneaky provision.

Often1

There is a ton of bad advice here and then some good advice from JDIVER.

1. IDB compensation of 400% of the fare or $1,300 whichever is less, does not apply because the route is served by 37-passenger aircraft. Weight-restricted or not, the IDB rules simply don't apply.

2. The Contract which you entered with US (AA) expressly excludes consequential damages, e.g., "because I was late, I missed X".

3. You can file in any court you want, but you have agreed that Texas law will apply in that court. However, AA may choose to remove the case to federal court, no matter the amount involved.

4. Even if you had any damages, what are they for real? 1/2 day of a conference can't be much.

I would have taken the $200 customer service gesture and follow the advice that if this was an important business matter, that you not schedule the way you did, especially given the nature of the service.

Forget the clucking by the agents. Of course this happens. Weight restrictions on tiny aircraft during the summer are part of life.

Exec_Plat

Now see, I have a different opinion....

Yes it can get moved to state court...or federal court...or you might lose... or...or...or

But if you file in small claims AA **MUST** respond, or they lose. Sure, they can appeal and move it after they lose... all true.

In terms of the regulations on weight and denied bording with small aircraft...if you are in small claims WHO WILL ARGUE THIS POINT? AA will not send a lawyer.

The point is that the advice you are getting here- (much of it is accurate) presupposes AA mounts a defense and shows up in small claims. The judge isnt going to say "well nobody from AA is here, but *I* know the regs on planes under 61 pax and you lose"

It is my belief that a suit filed means someone with a brain will read your complaint. They may decided "lets pay him an IDB claim and settle this".

I would not waste time with DOT or with AA- on the small plane they will use the weight/safety issue.


I would ask others in this thread: "Is there a published or mandatory policy AA must use before they deny boarding under the weight/safety restriction loophole? If they still must ask for volunteers and they did not, then they DID violate their policy and you might have leverage PROVING they did not will be a challenge.

AA-Flyer-SAN

I apologize for some of my fellow flyers and their remarks. Some of us tend to forget not everyone is seasoned and may only fly a few times in many years and don't know the rules or policies regarding air travel. You were offered some great advice (subtract the snarkyness). I have 1.6 million (butt in seat) miles but learn new things every day. I did not know about some of these rules particularly the substituting aircraft for a smaller aircraft rule.

That being said, never expect to get anywhere on time. I purposely book typically oversold flights in advance just to get my greedy fingers on a voucher. But I also leave a lot of slop in between important events. Many people book tickets to arrive at weddings or big events the DAY OF the event and go ballistic when their flight is delayed for weather or mechanical or what not. At least a day should be factored in for these events.

As for the lawsuit, I agree it's a waste of time. If you politely write customer service and POLITELY state the circumstances they may toss you an extra bone. But if you just threaten to sue they will clam up and you will get nothing.

AA-Flyer-SAN

Useful link regarding compensation and flyer rights:

http://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

iplaybass

You could possibly claim "trip in vain" politely, and get some sort of compensation beyond the voucher, but there's no guarantee, especially since the weight restriction gave the airline a valid reason for IDB.

I second JDiver, though. Been delayed/rerouted/overnighted enough that I plan to arrive a day early. For me the equation is simple: cost of time away from home+1 night's lodging+food vs. wasted registration fee and ultimate cost of missed event. If it's for some sort of necessary certification or time-sensitive meeting then it is well worth the additional expenses to arrive early.

Filing in SC is probably only going to end up costing you the filing fee for no return.

djk7

This really just means that DOT mandated compensation is not due. The OP can certainly still sue. That doesn't mean they have much chance of prevailing, but anything is possible.

tacostuff

I agree with the above whole-heartedly. Even if AA hires a schmoe lawyer to defend an improperly filed suit, it is still going to cost on the order of $1-2k, minimum. More than likely they will just settle by offering you some compensation. I can't tell you how many times on small matters I have said I'm going to sue (as a plaintiff) or go ahead and sue me (as a defendant) and the other side gives up. The reality is that litigating costs money (even if your case is a 100% winner) and they can probably get out cheaper by offering you a voucher.

Now, the other side of the coin is that some businesses take a stance of "we'll litigate this regardless of the cost to avoid a deluge of similar nuisance suits." It's possible that AA would do this, but I think it unlikely for two reasons. First, litigation fees are real, hard cash, whereas vouchers are just paper money. Second, I suspect that AA is just trying to keep costs as low as possible and isn't out to make a point here (I wouldn't think these types of suits are all that common--most people here apparently wouldn't file one).