US eyes PHX-FRA
Mar 30, 2007, 11:16 am
#16
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They are cutting F seats and adding coach in the domestic fleet. They are cutting Envoy seats and adding coach on the 330. If they could jam an extra row in widthwise, all prior ancillary evidence indicates they most certainly would do it, if they could.
Only airlines that don't do three abreast in Biz (777/747) are the ones who have already made the jump to flat beds (and, as mentioned, even some of those have middles). Even Singapore and Cathay (whose service and amenities squash both UA and US in every meaningful way) have only gone to to 2 abreast in the middle of biz in the planes that have lie-flat seats. Until the beds came along, they all had 3 abreast on a 777.
If you don't want UA out of SFO, take UAX to LAX and get the LH flight to FRA. I'd be sorely tempted to drive to LAX from SBA, but I'm a glutton for punishment....
Only airlines that don't do three abreast in Biz (777/747) are the ones who have already made the jump to flat beds (and, as mentioned, even some of those have middles). Even Singapore and Cathay (whose service and amenities squash both UA and US in every meaningful way) have only gone to to 2 abreast in the middle of biz in the planes that have lie-flat seats. Until the beds came along, they all had 3 abreast on a 777.
If you don't want UA out of SFO, take UAX to LAX and get the LH flight to FRA. I'd be sorely tempted to drive to LAX from SBA, but I'm a glutton for punishment....
Mar 30, 2007, 12:39 pm
#17
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Mar 30, 2007, 1:16 pm
#18
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I've never fully understood the disdain for middle seats in Business Class. The times I've had them, I thank my lucky stars I'm not back in coach.
The primary reason I hate middle seats in coach is that there simply isn't enough width for three fully grown adults in a set of three coach seats each about 17 inches wide. Somebody's shoulders and arms aren't gonna have any room. And that's a very uncomfortable way to spend 6 or 8 or even 14 hours.
In Business Class, even the middle seats have plenty of width and have their own armrests, so what's the big deal? Harder to get out when adjacent passengers are fully reclined? Same problem in all the window seats.
The primary reason I hate middle seats in coach is that there simply isn't enough width for three fully grown adults in a set of three coach seats each about 17 inches wide. Somebody's shoulders and arms aren't gonna have any room. And that's a very uncomfortable way to spend 6 or 8 or even 14 hours.
In Business Class, even the middle seats have plenty of width and have their own armrests, so what's the big deal? Harder to get out when adjacent passengers are fully reclined? Same problem in all the window seats.
Mar 30, 2007, 1:44 pm
#19
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I don't mean to be too argumentative, but having flown both, LH pretty much wins hands down against US in all aspects in C. In Y, the LH seats are a little tight, but it's nothing that free beer can't handle.
Mar 30, 2007, 4:03 pm
#21
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Mar 30, 2007, 8:28 pm
#22
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I've never fully understood the disdain for middle seats in Business Class. The times I've had them, I thank my lucky stars I'm not back in coach.
The primary reason I hate middle seats in coach is that there simply isn't enough width for three fully grown adults in a set of three coach seats each about 17 inches wide. Somebody's shoulders and arms aren't gonna have any room. And that's a very uncomfortable way to spend 6 or 8 or even 14 hours.
In Business Class, even the middle seats have plenty of width and have their own armrests, so what's the big deal? Harder to get out when adjacent passengers are fully reclined? Same problem in all the window seats.
The primary reason I hate middle seats in coach is that there simply isn't enough width for three fully grown adults in a set of three coach seats each about 17 inches wide. Somebody's shoulders and arms aren't gonna have any room. And that's a very uncomfortable way to spend 6 or 8 or even 14 hours.
In Business Class, even the middle seats have plenty of width and have their own armrests, so what's the big deal? Harder to get out when adjacent passengers are fully reclined? Same problem in all the window seats.
Mar 30, 2007, 8:41 pm
#23
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When LH tried PHX wasnt HP tied up with BA on codeshares to feed BA?
If anything this might squeeze BA out of the market or downsize from at 777.
If anything this might squeeze BA out of the market or downsize from at 777.
Mar 30, 2007, 9:50 pm
#24
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They don't have F. It's "premium biz" and has been marketed as such for some time.
Those airlines that generally have middles in C/J also have a real F cabin (no, the flat beds with the Envoy food in Row 1 don't qualify).
Those airlines that generally have middles in C/J also have a real F cabin (no, the flat beds with the Envoy food in Row 1 don't qualify).
Mar 31, 2007, 3:10 am
#25
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If anyone told me that I must fly LH Y from anywhere in the US to Deutschland, I would reach over to a 357 Mag Dan Wesson, shoot them between their eyes and then do the same to myself. (J/K) 
LH's couch is the absolute very worst I have ever flown, and that includes all over Africa, Asia, S America and the former Soviet Union.
The last time I tried to put up with their garbage I wore a huge bruise on my right thigh for six weeks from their stinking seats. It took everything I had in my soul not to smack the FAs for their rotten attitudes and lack of compassion for two very and tall people trapped into extremely rotten seats. My wife and I ended up with the attitude of the Dutch Resistance fighting the Nazis. And please keep in mind that my very best friend is Deutsch! So no cultural clash here.
ARF LH! ARF LH to the point where they never ever torture PAX again in Y!
LH's couch is the absolute very worst I have ever flown, and that includes all over Africa, Asia, S America and the former Soviet Union.
The last time I tried to put up with their garbage I wore a huge bruise on my right thigh for six weeks from their stinking seats. It took everything I had in my soul not to smack the FAs for their rotten attitudes and lack of compassion for two very and tall people trapped into extremely rotten seats. My wife and I ended up with the attitude of the Dutch Resistance fighting the Nazis. And please keep in mind that my very best friend is Deutsch! So no cultural clash here.
ARF LH! ARF LH to the point where they never ever torture PAX again in Y!
Last edited by KevAZ; Mar 31, 2007 at 3:44 am
Mar 31, 2007, 3:32 am
#26
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Mar 31, 2007, 8:15 am
#27
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This is very good news, and it makes great sense.
BA occasionally has flown a 777 to PHX, but the flight usually gets the high-Y/low-J configuration 747, and the flights appear very full. BA markets the J/F class very well for the folks in the valley, focusing on people who will pay the price with well-targeted ads.
When LH was in town, their marketing seemed a little odd, unfocused and disjointed, at least for the PHX side of the equation, so it seemed like they were expecting the German side of the equation to fill the plane.
As has been noted above, the opportunity to avoid PHL will prompt savvy HP travelers to the PHX-FRA route, and it will also probably help the pricing on AA from FRA.
BA occasionally has flown a 777 to PHX, but the flight usually gets the high-Y/low-J configuration 747, and the flights appear very full. BA markets the J/F class very well for the folks in the valley, focusing on people who will pay the price with well-targeted ads.
When LH was in town, their marketing seemed a little odd, unfocused and disjointed, at least for the PHX side of the equation, so it seemed like they were expecting the German side of the equation to fill the plane.
As has been noted above, the opportunity to avoid PHL will prompt savvy HP travelers to the PHX-FRA route, and it will also probably help the pricing on AA from FRA.
Mar 31, 2007, 6:18 pm
#28
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If anyone told me that I must fly LH Y from anywhere in the US to Deutschland, I would reach over to a 357 Mag Dan Wesson, shoot them between their eyes and then do the same to myself. (J/K)
LH's couch is the absolute very worst I have ever flown, and that includes all over Africa, Asia, S America and the former Soviet Union.
The last time I tried to put up with their garbage I wore a huge bruise on my right thigh for six weeks from their stinking seats. It took everything I had in my soul not to smack the FAs for their rotten attitudes and lack of compassion for two very and tall people trapped into extremely rotten seats. My wife and I ended up with the attitude of the Dutch Resistance fighting the Nazis. And please keep in mind that my very best friend is Deutsch! So no cultural clash here.
ARF LH! ARF LH to the point where they never ever torture PAX again in Y!
LH's couch is the absolute very worst I have ever flown, and that includes all over Africa, Asia, S America and the former Soviet Union.
The last time I tried to put up with their garbage I wore a huge bruise on my right thigh for six weeks from their stinking seats. It took everything I had in my soul not to smack the FAs for their rotten attitudes and lack of compassion for two very and tall people trapped into extremely rotten seats. My wife and I ended up with the attitude of the Dutch Resistance fighting the Nazis. And please keep in mind that my very best friend is Deutsch! So no cultural clash here.
ARF LH! ARF LH to the point where they never ever torture PAX again in Y!
I survived the BOS-FRA LH Y, but only after a few (I lost count) free cocktails down in the LH lounge and onboard... the rest I don't remember, though I did have the bruise you speak of. I don't think I could do it from PHX though...
I guess we understand who US is competing with now though..... LH Y torture or US Y torture! Though both stink. I did TXL-IAD-BOS just to avoid either on the return.... The UA 777 won hands down.