Mar 30, 2014, 12:53 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
WIKI POST: Using US Dividend Miles for oneworld Award Flights
As further details become available, please fill in this wikipost.
As further details become available, please fill in this wikipost.
N.B. Booking opportunities for new Dividend Miles awards of all kinds ended 11:59 PM Wednesday, 25 March 2015. Please continue using this thread for trips booked or in progress through 24 March 2016.
Changes on USDM oneworld award tickets
This is the only official statement about changing issued USDM award tickets:
If I need to make changes to a Dividend Miles award reservation, which program’s rules will apply?
Minor changes such as date/time can be made provided seats are available without requiring a new award to be claimed. More substantive changes such as changes to stopovers or origin/destination may result in the need to reinstate the previously claimed Dividend Miles award, then claiming a new AAdvantage award under the existing AAdvantage program rules.
The old membership rules do 'generally' still appy to USDM tickets.
For awards ticketed / reticketed on 001- ticket stock, go to the AA Refunds site with your ticket number at hand (unsure if it works with 037- stock at this time)to:
- Print a receipt with ticket number (instead of Request a refund)
- See total fees, taxes, etc. attached to your ticket
- See applicable detailed fare rules
- Request a refund (may not be useful for awards)
- Some were able to change their ticket without beeing charged the USD 150.- changing fee.
- No chance to change a ticket after the first flight segment has been flown.
- ...
Old stuff
oneworld member airlines - airberlin, American Airlines, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, Finnair, Iberia, Japan Airlines, LAN, Malaysia Airlines, Qantas, Qatar Airways, Royal Jordanian, S7 Airlines (Sibir), SriLankan Airlines, TAM Airlines, US Airways and their affiliates.
Award Chart for oneworld awards using US Dividend Miles:
http://shopping.usairways.com/en-US/...wardtravel.pdf
You can use the American Airlines, British Airways, JAL, or Qantas sites to search for oneworld award inventory. AA and QF also allows you to search for award inventory using a handy 30 day calendar view. However, availability on the calendar is dependent on site coverage (e.g. QF does not include JL or MH, AA does not include CX and others). Also, the calendar view may not be completely accurate on all partners, so use it as a guide but do not rely on it fully.
One of the easiest ways to search for oneworld availability is through the use of an outside tool such as Award Nexus, ExpertFlyer, KVS Tool, or The Wandering Aramean oneworld Search.
Award Nexus has a free community membership for flyertalk members, and award email alert with premium membership. ExpertFlyer has email alerts and direct GDS access to select oneworld award inventories, such as AA, QF, and US. ExpertFlyer can also search J class certificate upgrade inventory. With KVS Tool, you can search QF, BA, JL and CX's search engines, in addition to other alliances, on your PC (Mac / Linux with CrossOver). You can also set up an alert via The Wandering Aramean oneworld Search. This tool will automatically search on QF for your alert once per day with a free account and four times per day with a paid account.
N.B. With all of the above tools, it is best to search one segment at a time. Most oneworld search engines have difficulty marrying segments.
For route searching with itinerary information, use the interactive oneworld map and timetable.
For searching Intra-North America availability, the best tool is AA.com. Unlike the other oneworld engines, AA is pretty good at marrying segments, so you can search origin to destination.
Regarding availability, the strategy that has been most effective for people looking to book award travel on oneworld is to start searching right at 330 days prior to departure. This is generally when availability is at its best. After that, availability tends to be sporadic until starting 8 weeks prior to departure where some airlines open up availability, and will vary all the way up until the day of departure.
If you're having trouble finding availability, it may be best to look at alternate airports (JL, for example, serves SAN, YVR, and BOS, in addition to the larger markets of SFO, LAX, YYZ, ORD, and JFK).
(N.B. Although US was not adding fuel surcharges to awards, there are reports that they have started doing this for awards containing BA flights.) With the exception of BA & IB, no oneworld carriers require you to pay a fuel surcharge for awards. With BA, be aware that you may have to pay both a fuel surcharge as well as the UK Air Passenger Duty departure tax for intercontinental J and F flights out of UK. These fees vary with class of service and length of flight and are determined by BA; the Air Passenger Duty (see specific thread) is due for all UK departures not under 24 hour connecting flights. APD applies to coach tickets, too, but at a reduced rate. The fuel /YQ surcharge with IB is generally considered minimal.
Known Problems / Workaround:
- Dep 00:00AM : Some agents have difficulty finding flights leaving between midnight and 2 AM. This is because the US systems show it leaving the day before. If the agent cannot find it, please ask to look at the day before. > source <
- LA : Flights put on hold will be cancelled after 24h. Workaround: Issue the ticket immediately. > source <
- JL : US Rep cannot find available seats. Workaround: "Always have to remind Rep to open JL reservations on a new screen". > source <
- MH : US Rep cannot find awards in First Class. Workaround: First class needs to be booked in P-cl instead of Z-cl (as on most other OW carriers). > source < booking classes: > KVS <
- All : If you are booking outbound flights at the US Air 335 day window US Air will often allow you to put your reservation on a longer than 3 day hold to capture the return seats once they open up at T+335. There is a report of this for 30 days here, and FT user beofotch was successful in getting a 13 day hold here. Workaround: Huaca until you get an agent who is competent enough to do this. It may help to act naive and ask for your return flight on your preferred date even if it is after T+335 days. Once they get an error from the computer may be a good time to bring it up.
- ...
Fixed Problems:
- CX : US Rep cannot find seats on flight CX 645 HKG-DOH. Workaround: none so far, search for different routing/carrier (CMB/DXB/...?)... > source < > fixed <
> fixed < - CX : US Rep cannot find seats on flight CX 640 DOH-HKG. They admit, the flight exists, but are unable to book <source>. Workaround: none so far, search for different routing/carrier
> fixed < - BA/Comair : US rep could not see / or unable to book intra-South Africa flights in BA flight number operated by Comair despite AA treats Comair a full fledged oneworld member under BA, in the same context as KA under CX. Only one reported success booking - poster reported agent had trouble at first but on consulting a supervisor was told "where to look"; the agent did not give any further information. Most everyone else reported unable to book Comair flights.
> fixed < - IB : Flights will be cancelled after ticket issued. Workaround: None yet... > source <
> fixed <
LUS: USDM oneworld Award Bookings - (Closed to new bookings) [Master FAQ and Help]
Mar 24, 2015, 6:39 pm
#3991
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OKC
Programs: AAdvantage EXP, Marriott Rewards Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 290
No Go on PHX-LAX-HKG-JNB-MRU
They threw at me the third region rule....should I HUACA?
Mar 24, 2015, 6:40 pm
#3992
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,590
So what's the difference between "turnaround point" and "furthest point" when you're taking a >24 hour stop at the "furthest point", as opposed to transiting?
OP wants a stop as far away from GRU as they are going to get. So why doesn't that become a destination and SIN an en route stopover?.
OP wants a stop as far away from GRU as they are going to get. So why doesn't that become a destination and SIN an en route stopover?.
The furthest point from the origin is not necessarily the destination - it is only on a circle trip ticket where it matters
Backtracking is irrelevent to whether it is a stopover - routing rules/ mileage limits will impact on whether a certain journey is valid
Mar 24, 2015, 7:02 pm
#3994
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,405
The fact that you transit a city of greater distance doesn't make that the destination.
SYD-LHR-JFK is permitted as a USDM award, and JFK is the destination, even though JFK is closer to SYD than LHR.
The same thing here - routing to SIN via HKG, where there is a turn-around in SIN, makes singapore the destination (if all other aspects of the award rules are satisfied).
Transits/connections don't count for either destination, or stopover.
Mar 24, 2015, 7:19 pm
#3995
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
It really does.
I had a well experienced supervisor, with a good grasp of geography (I know, a shocker for US, but she knew what countries are in what continent and which flights are how long), tell me how "agents exceed MPM all the time," and that it's not a cardinal sin and fine within reason (I guess as far as she is concerned), as long as the routing rules are followed and there's no backtracking or other such things going on.
I had a well experienced supervisor, with a good grasp of geography (I know, a shocker for US, but she knew what countries are in what continent and which flights are how long), tell me how "agents exceed MPM all the time," and that it's not a cardinal sin and fine within reason (I guess as far as she is concerned), as long as the routing rules are followed and there's no backtracking or other such things going on.
Mar 24, 2015, 7:23 pm
#3996
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
US are extremely strict and absolutely unrelenting on the "no transiting IATA Area 3 on the way from Area 1 to Area 2".
You can do the reverse (the same in the other direction), as long as it's not over MPM, but not on the outbound.
From my experience, speak to who you will, US is very strict about NO Area 1 -> Area 3 -> Area 2, even when it's the most direct route. You must go Area 1 -> Area 2. However, Area 2 -> Area 3 -> Area 1 is A-OK (as they clearly also say, as they only enforce it in one direction, based on how it is worded in the IATA manual that they are using).
I would suggest to do that routing on the return, but on outbound go via EU (e.g., LHR) on your way to JNB, avoiding transiting Area 3. You are highly unlikely to get away with A1->A3->A2 outbound, but will have no problems on the same in reverse on return, as long as it's w/in MPM.
You can do the reverse (the same in the other direction), as long as it's not over MPM, but not on the outbound.
From my experience, speak to who you will, US is very strict about NO Area 1 -> Area 3 -> Area 2, even when it's the most direct route. You must go Area 1 -> Area 2. However, Area 2 -> Area 3 -> Area 1 is A-OK (as they clearly also say, as they only enforce it in one direction, based on how it is worded in the IATA manual that they are using).
I would suggest to do that routing on the return, but on outbound go via EU (e.g., LHR) on your way to JNB, avoiding transiting Area 3. You are highly unlikely to get away with A1->A3->A2 outbound, but will have no problems on the same in reverse on return, as long as it's w/in MPM.
Mar 24, 2015, 7:32 pm
#3997
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OKC
Programs: AAdvantage EXP, Marriott Rewards Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 290
Also said I couldn't go connect JNB - MRU since it wasn't a hub !! Just bad luck for me or what???
Mar 24, 2015, 7:36 pm
#3998
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,387
It's simple when you put it into the context of a revenue ticket. If I buy on TG from LHR to HKG, it must transit bangkok. Clearly HKG is the destination on the ticket, not BKK.
The fact that you transit a city of greater distance doesn't make that the destination.
SYD-LHR-JFK is permitted as a USDM award, and JFK is the destination, even though JFK is closer to SYD than LHR.
The same thing here - routing to SIN via HKG, where there is a turn-around in SIN, makes singapore the destination (if all other aspects of the award rules are satisfied).
Transits/connections don't count for either destination, or stopover.
The fact that you transit a city of greater distance doesn't make that the destination.
SYD-LHR-JFK is permitted as a USDM award, and JFK is the destination, even though JFK is closer to SYD than LHR.
The same thing here - routing to SIN via HKG, where there is a turn-around in SIN, makes singapore the destination (if all other aspects of the award rules are satisfied).
Transits/connections don't count for either destination, or stopover.
Mar 24, 2015, 7:47 pm
#3999
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,387
Because SIN is the turnaround point which is the destination on a round trip ticket
The furthest point from the origin is not necessarily the destination - it is only on a circle trip ticket where it matters
Backtracking is irrelevent to whether it is a stopover - routing rules/ mileage limits will impact on whether a certain journey is valid
The furthest point from the origin is not necessarily the destination - it is only on a circle trip ticket where it matters
Backtracking is irrelevent to whether it is a stopover - routing rules/ mileage limits will impact on whether a certain journey is valid
Why can't I call DFW a "turnaround" if I fly YVR-LAX-DFW-LAX-SYD-HKG-YVR, then, if we can just magically say "hey, this place is actually my turnaround, ignore anything else I do from this point on?" What makes something a "turnaround" if you aren't actually trying to go back directly from there with an en route stopover that is closer to your origin than where you "turned around"?
Mar 24, 2015, 7:55 pm
#4000
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
It could be any one of things that is legitimately wrong (due to US' buggy and incomplete award reservations system) with the res and agents making all sorts of wild guesses instead of taking the time to find out, or just a random excuse of the day for no good reason whatsoever.
Find out the MPM. If you are within that, no more than four flights one way, and following all rules (e.g., not transiting Area 3 on the way from Area 1 to Area 2), then you should be fine.
Keep in mind that some oneworld flights US just can't book. I was told that by a well informed supervisor that she recently learned from AA just how many oneworld flights (not just BE operated AY flights) US can't book, but AA can. It seems that some (or many? most?) oneworld affiliate airline operated flights, but coded and sold by actual OW members, US just isn't set to ticket - the agents can put the flights in, but it just won't ticket. That's a known problem that US hasn't bothered to fix, as it'll go away in two days.
Mar 24, 2015, 8:15 pm
#4001
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: OKC
Programs: AAdvantage EXP, Marriott Rewards Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 290
As long as you are not stopping over (>24h) in JNB, that is wrong.
It could be any one of things that is legitimately wrong (due to US' buggy and incomplete award reservations system) with the res and agents making all sorts of wild guesses instead of taking the time to find out, or just a random excuse of the day for no good reason whatsoever.
Find out the MPM. If you are within that, no more than four flights one way, and following all rules (e.g., not transiting Area 3 on the way from Area 1 to Area 2), then you should be fine.
Keep in mind that some oneworld flights US just can't book. I was told that by a well informed supervisor that she recently learned from AA just how many oneworld flights (not just BE operated AY flights) US can't book, but AA can. It seems that some (or many? most?) oneworld affiliate airline operated flights, but coded and sold by actual OW members, US just isn't set to ticket - the agents can put the flights in, but it just won't ticket. That's a known problem that US hasn't bothered to fix, as it'll go away in two days.
It could be any one of things that is legitimately wrong (due to US' buggy and incomplete award reservations system) with the res and agents making all sorts of wild guesses instead of taking the time to find out, or just a random excuse of the day for no good reason whatsoever.
Find out the MPM. If you are within that, no more than four flights one way, and following all rules (e.g., not transiting Area 3 on the way from Area 1 to Area 2), then you should be fine.
Keep in mind that some oneworld flights US just can't book. I was told that by a well informed supervisor that she recently learned from AA just how many oneworld flights (not just BE operated AY flights) US can't book, but AA can. It seems that some (or many? most?) oneworld affiliate airline operated flights, but coded and sold by actual OW members, US just isn't set to ticket - the agents can put the flights in, but it just won't ticket. That's a known problem that US hasn't bothered to fix, as it'll go away in two days.
Mar 24, 2015, 9:03 pm
#4002
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,590
It is only with a circle trip where distance from origin matters
Fly SYD-LHR / LHR-ORD / ORD-LHR-SYD , LHR is a stopover point and ORD is the destination/turnaround point . That ORD is closer to SYD than LHR is to SYD is irrelevent
Fly SYD-LHR / LHR-ORD / ORD-LAX-SYD , then LHR should be the destination and ORD the stopover point
If it were the case that SYD-LHR-ORD was an invalid routing , then would need 2 tickets in the 1st case SYD-LHR r/t and LHR-ORD r/t , but as long as the routing is valid , ORD is the destination in the 1st case
Mar 24, 2015, 9:18 pm
#4003
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Hi does this mean we can do date change (before the flight begins) with USDM award flight after merge?
Can we also change the transfer airport (origin, stopover, and destination will remain the same)?
Can we also change the transfer airport (origin, stopover, and destination will remain the same)?
According to this: View from the Wing » US Airways Dividend Miles Program Goes Away Saturday. Here’s Everything That Happens Next (including Changes to How American’s Upgrades Work) Comments Feed
Unless re-ticketing is needed any changes would be under the rules originally ticketed - i.e. US DM.
Unless re-ticketing is needed any changes would be under the rules originally ticketed - i.e. US DM.
Mar 24, 2015, 10:09 pm
#4004
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,590
That isn't am authoratative source - hopefully AA will release formal details when the merger occurs - anything is still speculation , albeit possibly from a reasonably reliable source
Mar 24, 2015, 11:10 pm
#4005
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 821
still desperate try to find 3 economy seats July/August from ASIA (China, Japan.......) back to YVR, can't find any, anyone can give me some suggestions?
Thanks!
Thanks!