2012 Changes to MoveUp Program [master thread]

 
Old Oct 13, 2012, 7:22 am
  #61  
 
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You would have to use UA SDC, since its UA metal. I believe they charge $75.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 1:03 pm
  #62  
 
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How does the policy work for move-ups on conections?

I have a two-leg flight where I will take the first one as scheduled. But I don't want to waste >3 hours in PHL, instead I'd like to take an earlier connecting flight after a good 1 hour. Would I still be charged $75?

I only found out now that there is an earlier connection. It does not show up in booking engines as a connection, but it is shown as a direct flight for the second leg of my trip. Dunno why.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 1:41 pm
  #63  
 
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As I understand the new rules, same departure/destination and connecting point should get you covered (if there are empty seats as always). So either way - considered a move-up for the entire itinerary or just the 2nd segment - you should be good for move-up.

As for the fee it's waived for US elites only I believe, so you would need US elite status. Since standby is not supposed to be allowed if there are empty seats available for move-up, that's only an option if there are no-shows or missed connections.

Jim
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 11:22 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy
As I understand the new rules, same departure/destination and connecting point should get you covered (if there are empty seats as always). So either way - considered a move-up for the entire itinerary or just the 2nd segment - you should be good for move-up.

As for the fee it's waived for US elites only I believe, so you would need US elite status. Since standby is not supposed to be allowed if there are empty seats available for move-up, that's only an option if there are no-shows or missed connections.

Jim
If this is true, then why did the customer service lady charge the missus 150 for moving up to my flight, from later in the day? It was within the 6 hour window!

What did I miss?
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 11:00 am
  #65  
 
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Have We Thought of a Campaign To Bring DL Style MoveUp

How about if 100 of us all send in a complaint about the various and numerous negative factors of the "new" 2012 MoveUp program, perhaps with a copy of newly acquired Delta elite challenge documentation.

This could be followed up by more direct communication with US executives in DM and revenue management.

Also if 100 of us filed DOT complaints about the policy, it *would* put US likely in last place. DOT has a complaint category for frequent flyer program issues. It doesn't matter if anyone agrees with your complaint or not, basically a complaint gets logged in the database for a given calendar month & its dinged against the airline for which its filed.

In fact if 100 people filed such a complaint, it would probably peak the interest of DOT regulators, they have an office full of people in DC looking out for public interest, and they tend to investigate issues where they see numerous complaints.

I find this policy so objectionable because when I grew up (went to college) you could basically fly standby anytime on the same ticketed departure date whether or not your were preferred on pretty much any carrier. If the flight was wide open, quite often the airport would just confirm you as well.

I don't like the new policy, and I think I was better served by the old ways. I don't think also that I am somehow now getting more "value," in other words, US has not added something now to replace the value its taken away with these more restrictive policies.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 11:22 am
  #66  
 
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There's nothing in the CoC that would qualify the Move Up program for DOT oversight. It's something US offers to all of its passengers - free for elites and a charged fee for non-elites. If we don't like the way the policy is set up that's really too bad. If the current policy does irk you, feel free to write a letter to US management suggesting a change.

The airlines are flying at near capacity now (with consolidation and shrinkage) so they've begun to charge for everything. So while changing to a flight which you did not originally book (on a non-refundable ticket) used to happen all the time for free, the airlines have now decided to charge a fee for it.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 11:36 am
  #67  
 
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Hi Geo,
As for DOT, I agree, the new US Move Up policy (or 99% of airline policies) are not violations of DOT regulations, but I think consumers can file DOT compalints about any perceived "service issue." There was some discussion earlier about US removing DOT complaints from the database through some process, but I'm not sure what the criteria is for a removal.

As a point of discussion under DOT procedures, a consumer could also file a complaint say because airlines no longer serve hot meals in coach, and my understanding is that said complaint would get tagged against the airline in the monthly ranking under some sort of general category? In other words, I don't think DOT adjudicates complaints against regulations in order to make the complaint "count," in terms of the rank of each airlines monthly report metric?

I don't think DOT would take action on these types of complaints, but I do think it could ding an airlines monthly metric?

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov

I can write a letter to US, but 1 letter I'm sure will be ignored.

And also as I was getting too, I think we are all really worse off now than say in 1995 or even year 2000. I feel like I'm paying about the same for air travel (I know there may be a slight inflation adjustment) and I'm getting less value now than what I used to get.

I wasn't around flying, but I suspect people "had it better" say in the 1980's and/or before deregulation. I know I feel like I was better off," in either 1995 or 2000.

I know the low end fares, I agree those are much lower now, but also I don't think the airline gouged for business or first class to the extent they do now.

Its also interesting while not related to this issue, EU regulators seem much more embolden to tackle consumer issues, and not just leave things to be resolved by "market forces."

I haven't found that the market really resolves these kinds of problems on its own eg quasi contracts.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 11:47 am
  #68  
 
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A Move Up Story From A Normal Passenger

I was on the plane yesterday talking to a mother with 4 kids, and she paid $75 x 4 = $300 to move up to an earlier shuttle flight, so her kids could get home earlier enough to go to school. Also the flight was so full they could not find seats for the family to sit together.

I spoke to her for a while, and she seemed like an ordinary consumer without any special or particular knowledge about the inner workings of the airline industry. The only data point about her that may be relevant is that it seemed the family was very well off financially so I don't think the $300 made any difference to her in a way or matter of speaking.

I asked her if she tried to get the airline to waive the fee, and she said she was uncomfortable asking for something like that, but that she felt her husbend certainly would have asked to have this waived, and he generally I guess you could say was more aggressive trying to get things waived.

I am always astonished on the bus etc. or hearing people talk about their travel experiences.

But this lady is typical, and if people are just whipping out their credit card paying $300 for a change like this that used to be free $0, its no wonder the airlines charge it.

If for instance it took 15 minutes of hassling with customers to get them to pay each fee, that would seriously slow down airport operations, delay flights, causelong lines, cause staffing issues, etc.

I wonder if someone who is growing up now feels less jaded and disgrunteld about the way things are now, because such a person may never have experienced the "good old days?"
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 11:42 am
  #69  
 
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"move up" won't let you go from direct to connection

I am a United man, and after my experience on US Airways yesterday I vowed to never fly them again. Ever. I was booked on the 5:50 PM IAH to BOS with stop in PHL. Same flight number 880 for entire trip. Meetings for the day were over and I arrived at IAH at 1PM, with plenty of time to switch flights, pay the $75, and get on the 3PM to Boston with a connection in CLT. I was told I could not because I was booked on a "direct" and could not swith to a flight with a connection. Period. I expalined it really isn't a direct flight...but she wouldn't budge and actually enjoyed ruining my day. I can understand the vice versa (can't switch to direct if booked on connecting flight) but why the other way around? I know I am only star silver (will be gold after one more flight) and I was laughed at by US Airways to think star silver would make any difference in the decision. So I sat at IAH for almost 5 hours despising US Airways and their nasty, horrible and uncaring employees. I will not be sad to see them leave Star Alliance if the merger with AA goes through.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 12:03 pm
  #70  
 
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The lousy 2012 Move Up program has stuck because people put up with it, pay US a lot of fees, and don't do things to make US's life difficult as a result of the Move Up Program like:

1. Filing DOT complaints at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov when they believe they have ben disserviced by an airline policy. I agree there is no law or regulation against an initiative like the 2012 Move Up Program, but my understanding is an airline passenger cna file a DOT complaint on any topic and DOT will catalog that complaint and it will ding the offending airline in the applicable months ranking. Again, it will ding the airline whehter or not the airline, DOT, or you or I believe the fundamentals of the compalint are legitimate or not. Anyone correct me if I am wrong on this?

2. Contact national and local media, and try to have press coverage of US's lousy 2012 Move Up program. Say you will be moving your business to Delta or United which have a more consumer favorable policy in this regard. Try to get the press, blogs, podcasts, etc. to cover the differences between US's Move Up program and similar offerings by Delta & United. If ten people wrote say to Scott at the Wall Street Journal [email protected] he might cover this.

3. As a courtesy send the news releases to US's vice president of revenue management, Divident Miles, director of customer relations, or other executives. Try to find the mailing address for the executive, and even Fedex the letter. Maybe even send them the letters are home so their assistants cannot as easily deflect the letter to the Cusotmer (we don't care) Relations.

4. Dial in to US Airways investor conference calls, and ask executives questions on why the company has a less than competetive process (2012 Move Up) when compared to Delta & United.

5. Every time you fly on Delta & United send the receipt to US executives, and tell them you are choosing the other carrier due to the 2012 Move Up Policy.

6. Organize an informational picket at US airports or corporate headquarters and give the public brochures on the inferior US 2012 Move Up Policy, and show how Delta and United have more customer favoring policies. The informational protests may be best at citys where US competes with DL and UA. The media also loves these kinds of things, so invite friends from the media. The media generally has a philosophy that the airlines are screwing their customers so I think they would enjoy this story with video of protesters, brochures, and the angle could be even if you are like the guy in Up In The Air that US Airways screws you but United and Delta understand our needs.

That is 6 ideas on a night with little sleep and only half a cup of coffee.

A bit more immediate advice is that the ticket agents have processes where they can reissue or revalidate your ticket to accommodate any changes, allows by company policy or not. Some ticket agents believe their job will be in jeopardy if they violate company policy on this, and others will violate company policy with little to no concern about possible consequences. It probably has to do with the gumption the agent has or doesn't have. You may have had better luck trying 3 different IAH agents if that was possible.

Good luck.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 1:04 pm
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by jetsetter
The lousy 2012 Move Up program has stuck because people put up with it, pay US a lot of fees, and don't do things to make US's life difficult as a result of the Move Up Program like:

1. Filing DOT complaints at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov when they believe they have ben disserviced by an airline policy. I agree there is no law or regulation against an initiative like the 2012 Move Up Program, but my understanding is an airline passenger cna file a DOT complaint on any topic and DOT will catalog that complaint and it will ding the offending airline in the applicable months ranking. Again, it will ding the airline whehter or not the airline, DOT, or you or I believe the fundamentals of the compalint are legitimate or not. Anyone correct me if I am wrong on this?

2. Contact national and local media, and try to have press coverage of US's lousy 2012 Move Up program. Say you will be moving your business to Delta or United which have a more consumer favorable policy in this regard. Try to get the press, blogs, podcasts, etc. to cover the differences between US's Move Up program and similar offerings by Delta & United. If ten people wrote say to Scott at the Wall Street Journal [email protected] he might cover this.

3. As a courtesy send the news releases to US's vice president of revenue management, Divident Miles, director of customer relations, or other executives. Try to find the mailing address for the executive, and even Fedex the letter. Maybe even send them the letters are home so their assistants cannot as easily deflect the letter to the Cusotmer (we don't care) Relations.

4. Dial in to US Airways investor conference calls, and ask executives questions on why the company has a less than competetive process (2012 Move Up) when compared to Delta & United.

5. Every time you fly on Delta & United send the receipt to US executives, and tell them you are choosing the other carrier due to the 2012 Move Up Policy.

6. Organize an informational picket at US airports or corporate headquarters and give the public brochures on the inferior US 2012 Move Up Policy, and show how Delta and United have more customer favoring policies. The informational protests may be best at citys where US competes with DL and UA. The media also loves these kinds of things, so invite friends from the media. The media generally has a philosophy that the airlines are screwing their customers so I think they would enjoy this story with video of protesters, brochures, and the angle could be even if you are like the guy in Up In The Air that US Airways screws you but United and Delta understand our needs.

That is 6 ideas on a night with little sleep and only half a cup of coffee.

A bit more immediate advice is that the ticket agents have processes where they can reissue or revalidate your ticket to accommodate any changes, allows by company policy or not. Some ticket agents believe their job will be in jeopardy if they violate company policy on this, and others will violate company policy with little to no concern about possible consequences. It probably has to do with the gumption the agent has or doesn't have. You may have had better luck trying 3 different IAH agents if that was possible.

Good luck.
Let me start by saying that I dislike the SDC policy as well. United and Delta do clearly have US beat in this regard - no argument there. I was Platinum on Delta this last year and that was one of the high points. Yet on the other hand don't delude yourself - the grass isn't always greener. Your profile indicates you have US Silver status, so let's take a moment and realize what you would get on the other two carriers if you held a comparable status on them. With United (http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...daychange.aspx) you don't get a move up/ same day for free, in fact, you don't even get a discount, likewise with delta (http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...-benefits.html) . Delta does not extend its Silver members the courtesy of companion upgrades, and we all know the likelihood of upgrades on both as a Silver. US rewards you (a Silver Preferred) with the exact same benefits as a Chairman's with respect to move-ups and upgrades with the exception of the upgrade window. Even then it's not unheard of for you to actually get upgrades, trust me I know of Golds on UA winding up #35 on the list. So caveat emperator my friend, picket to your heart's content, fly the other airlines and pay their fees, but realize that the policy that you advocate for, while it would be great for me and other upper tier preferred, would yield no move up benefits at all for you and other Silvers. I'd be fine sending more benefits to Gold and up, a la UA and DL, but realize that comes at the expense of currently well-treated Silvers.

But, then again if US is still too awful to bear let me save you the trouble of finding the link to status match.
http://www.delta.com/contactus/pages...atch/index.jsp

Last edited by CarterS; Dec 7, 2012 at 9:07 pm
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 8:16 pm
  #72  
 
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I did a double MoveUp today! I'm not going to mention the station this occurred at because I don't want anyone to get in trouble.

My meeting today ended much earlier than I had anticipated, so I arrived at the airport and went right to the gate to attempt a move up on a flight just a few minutes over the six hour limit. When the GA mentioned this, the best she could do is put me on a flight within the limit (2.5 hours before my original flight). I walked away wondering what I was going to do at the airport for 4 hours. Then I remembered reading about a double MoveUp on FT! I went back up to the podium and said "since I'm confirmed on the X:XXpm flight, will the computer allow you to do another MoveUp? She looked and me and gives me this devilish smile...as though I knew about a secret workaround! She hands my BP to the other GA and tells him he should do it from his computer...which I assume would prevent her from getting in trouble in case it ever was audited.

I just wanted to thank my US FT buddies for sharing this idea because you saved me 4 hours in an airport with no lounge and very few amenities!

Last edited by seratonin7; Dec 7, 2012 at 9:06 pm
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 3:52 pm
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by seratonin7
I did a double MoveUp today! I'm not going to mention the station this occurred at because I don't want anyone to get in trouble.

My meeting today ended much earlier than I had anticipated, so I arrived at the airport and went right to the gate to attempt a move up on a flight just a few minutes over the six hour limit. When the GA mentioned this, the best she could do is put me on a flight within the limit (2.5 hours before my original flight). I walked away wondering what I was going to do at the airport for 4 hours. Then I remembered reading about a double MoveUp on FT! I went back up to the podium and said "since I'm confirmed on the X:XXpm flight, will the computer allow you to do another MoveUp? She looked and me and gives me this devilish smile...as though I knew about a secret workaround! She hands my BP to the other GA and tells him he should do it from his computer...which I assume would prevent her from getting in trouble in case it ever was audited.

I just wanted to thank my US FT buddies for sharing this idea because you saved me 4 hours in an airport with no lounge and very few amenities!
You're lucky! ^

The TA just as easily could have told you "No, sorry." Of course, in that case, you politely say, "Thanks! Understood." And then you walk to the furthest TA from the TA whom you just left and simply ask to be Moved Up (without mentioning that you were already moved up) to the flight you want from your (newly) confirmed flight. And if that doesn't work out, you go to gate for the earlier flight and ask the GA -- and hope that the GA isn't one of the two previous TA's!
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:46 am
  #74  
 
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The current 2012 Move Up Policy just creates more problems, issues, games, etc. between pax, agents, etc. It adds complexity and additional steps for things like Double Move Ups, and creats ill will among some of US's top customers. I don't think the designers have ever lived on the road.

A related issue is that once you web check in with US, they don't have an easy way to take yourself off the checkin list. So, say, you know your going to miss a flight, why can't you take yourself off the check in list to smooth the processing of upgrades & standbys? Even if you call res, I don't think they will touch the PNR to remove the checkin status for the ticket coupon.

Southwest does this beautifully even for no status pax, you can "delete boarding pass," up until the time your BP is scanned as "on." You could delete your BP 9 minutes before the scheduled departure time.

I also don't understand why US does not have an online version of Move Up - Same Day Confirmed.

I wonder also on the agents computers what the different process they use for a Move Up vs. a Move Back say if a pax misses their flight? Are the steps a lot more cumbersome for a Move Back? I saw an agent do a Move Up recently & it seemed very fast like they have an entry that does it almost right away with minimal ttyping? This was the agent working the boarding for a flight, I'm not sure if the entry is different if its not an agent signed in boarding that particular flight?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 2:11 pm
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by jetsetter
I wonder also on the agents computers what the different process they use for a Move Up vs. a Move Back say if a pax misses their flight? Are the steps a lot more cumbersome for a Move Back? I saw an agent do a Move Up recently & it seemed very fast like they have an entry that does it almost right away with minimal ttyping? This was the agent working the boarding for a flight, I'm not sure if the entry is different if its not an agent signed in boarding that particular flight?
The "Move Up" entry on the computer is quite easy for the agents, if you are on a non-stop moving up to another non-stop. They simply type in your old flight, the new flight and your name. The tool then prompts them to collect a fee, if applicable. It would work for Move Back, if the entry was done before the original flights departure (after departure, the itinerary is cancelled). It works the same whether at the gate or ticket counter.

If you are on connections, changing to another connection, they must pull up your reservation, cancel the old flights, book the new flights, adjust the ticket/charge fee (if applicable) and then check you in for the new itinerary. Much more time consuming than single segment flights.
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