One Add'l Perimeter Exemption at DCA (merged threads)
Feb 8, 2012, 7:55 am
#1
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One Add'l Perimeter Exemption at DCA (merged threads)
So in the FAA bill that's being passed, they granted 8 additional round trips. I'll let Brett Snyder from Cranky Flier explain the rest.
"Half of those must go to new entrants or “limited” incumbents who have very little service already. I assume we’ll see Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier, Southwest, and Spirit vie for those. For the other four roundtrips, the big guys can get the slots, but they can only get 1 roundtrip each and they have to convert an existing in-perimeter slot to use it. I’m quite interested to see how that might work. Maybe United wants to fly to San Francisco, but other than that, I imagine the airlines mostly want to use the slots to go to cities they already serve with existing perimeter exemptions."
So do we think US will get an additional r/t to PHX? Or can we dream of a cool non-stop to LA or something. I'm thinking the former but hoping the latter.
"Half of those must go to new entrants or “limited” incumbents who have very little service already. I assume we’ll see Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier, Southwest, and Spirit vie for those. For the other four roundtrips, the big guys can get the slots, but they can only get 1 roundtrip each and they have to convert an existing in-perimeter slot to use it. I’m quite interested to see how that might work. Maybe United wants to fly to San Francisco, but other than that, I imagine the airlines mostly want to use the slots to go to cities they already serve with existing perimeter exemptions."
So do we think US will get an additional r/t to PHX? Or can we dream of a cool non-stop to LA or something. I'm thinking the former but hoping the latter.
Feb 8, 2012, 8:27 am
#2
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I think there is a requirement elsewhere in the bill that the perimeter exemption can't be used on a destination to which you already have an exemption, so that would (thankfully) take PHX off the table. If that's the case, I will let the pilots on this forum comment further on range based on aircraft that US has that can actually take off and land at DCA.
I won't be surprised, though, if we see a completely random city be where US uses their exemption. There is already service to LAX and SEA, and there's a good chance that Alaska will use any new exemption to fly nonstop to PDX. UA is dominant in IAD-SFO and while a once-daily flight from DCA would likely be incredibly popular, it may not be profitable considering that competition. I would not be surprised to see SAN, SAT, or AUS, or somewhere like that, getting service from DCA, though, as the frequency of nonstop to those cities from IAD is lower across all carriers (meaning fewer seats = less competition = potential to charge higher fares). Feeding the longhauls from the *A hubs at LAX/SFO would sound logical but those routes are already well-served, and I think US may try to start a route that they'll dominate rather than jumping in to an already well-serviced route to compete with UA/AA/AS.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the 1x daily service to LAS is bumped up to 2x (assuming I'm wrong about the bill requiring it to be a new nonstop destination) as that flight is always full, and always a high ticket price.
I just hope they don't add another nonstop to PHX. Yes I know those flights are always full, and I know that is a major connecting point; it just seems like it would not enhance the route map at all.
I won't be surprised, though, if we see a completely random city be where US uses their exemption. There is already service to LAX and SEA, and there's a good chance that Alaska will use any new exemption to fly nonstop to PDX. UA is dominant in IAD-SFO and while a once-daily flight from DCA would likely be incredibly popular, it may not be profitable considering that competition. I would not be surprised to see SAN, SAT, or AUS, or somewhere like that, getting service from DCA, though, as the frequency of nonstop to those cities from IAD is lower across all carriers (meaning fewer seats = less competition = potential to charge higher fares). Feeding the longhauls from the *A hubs at LAX/SFO would sound logical but those routes are already well-served, and I think US may try to start a route that they'll dominate rather than jumping in to an already well-serviced route to compete with UA/AA/AS.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the 1x daily service to LAS is bumped up to 2x (assuming I'm wrong about the bill requiring it to be a new nonstop destination) as that flight is always full, and always a high ticket price.
I just hope they don't add another nonstop to PHX. Yes I know those flights are always full, and I know that is a major connecting point; it just seems like it would not enhance the route map at all.
Feb 8, 2012, 9:21 am
#3
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Wikipedia has a pretty good explaination of the DCA perimeter rule:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_...tional_Airport
I'd be highly surprised if US didn't push McCain to get an extra DCA-PHX slot (or maybe McCain wouldn't need so much pushing). After all, an extra slot means it is easier for him (and the rest of the AZ congressional delegation) to commute to work.
I thought at some point there were more US slots to LAS, but maybe I'm just dreaming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_...tional_Airport
Perimeter restrictions
A plane flying the River Visual approach by the Lincoln Memorial.Reagan National Airport is subject to a federally-mandated perimeter limitation and may not accommodate nonstop flights to or from cities beyond a 1,250-statute mile (2,010 km) radius, with limited exceptions. The U.S. Department of Transportation has issued "beyond-perimeter slot exemptions" which allow specified carriers to operate 12 daily round-trip flights to cities outside the perimeter. These exemptions are allocated as follows:
* US Airways (8 slots operating as 3x Phoenix, 1x Las Vegas)
* Alaska Airlines (6 slots operating as 2x Seattle/Tacoma, 1x Los Angeles)
* Frontier Airlines (6 slots operating as 3x Denver)
* Delta Air Lines (2 slots operating as 1x Salt Lake City)
* United Airlines (2 slots operating as 1x Denver)
In 1999, Senator John McCain of Arizona introduced legislation to remove the 1,250-statute mile (2,010 km) perimeter restriction,[citation needed] infuriating some local residents concerned about noise and traffic from increased service by larger, long-haul aircraft. McCain argued that the move would improve competition, while critics[specify] charged he was supporting the interests of Phoenix, Arizona-based America West Airlines (AWA). In the end the restriction was not lifted, but the FAA was permitted to add additional exemptions, which went not to AWA but to competitor Alaska Airlines. America West (now US Airways) later gained additional exemptions for non-stop service to Phoenix in 2004.
Originally the airport had no perimeter rule; in 1954-1960 airlines scheduled nonstop flights to California on piston-engine airliners.[citation needed] Scheduled jet airliners were not allowed at all until April 1966; the perimeter rule arrived with them, and apparently applied only to them. The initial perimeter was 650 statute miles (1,050 km), except that airports under 1,000 statute miles (1,600 km) that had scheduled nonstops in 1965 were allowed to retain them. This meant Minneapolis-St Paul was allowed nonstop jet flights but Kansas City, New Orleans, and Fort Lauderdale were not. In 1981 the perimeter became a flat 1,000 statute miles (1,600 km); it expanded to 1,250 statute miles (2,010 km), enough to encompass Houston, in 1986-87.
A plane flying the River Visual approach by the Lincoln Memorial.Reagan National Airport is subject to a federally-mandated perimeter limitation and may not accommodate nonstop flights to or from cities beyond a 1,250-statute mile (2,010 km) radius, with limited exceptions. The U.S. Department of Transportation has issued "beyond-perimeter slot exemptions" which allow specified carriers to operate 12 daily round-trip flights to cities outside the perimeter. These exemptions are allocated as follows:
* US Airways (8 slots operating as 3x Phoenix, 1x Las Vegas)
* Alaska Airlines (6 slots operating as 2x Seattle/Tacoma, 1x Los Angeles)
* Frontier Airlines (6 slots operating as 3x Denver)
* Delta Air Lines (2 slots operating as 1x Salt Lake City)
* United Airlines (2 slots operating as 1x Denver)
In 1999, Senator John McCain of Arizona introduced legislation to remove the 1,250-statute mile (2,010 km) perimeter restriction,[citation needed] infuriating some local residents concerned about noise and traffic from increased service by larger, long-haul aircraft. McCain argued that the move would improve competition, while critics[specify] charged he was supporting the interests of Phoenix, Arizona-based America West Airlines (AWA). In the end the restriction was not lifted, but the FAA was permitted to add additional exemptions, which went not to AWA but to competitor Alaska Airlines. America West (now US Airways) later gained additional exemptions for non-stop service to Phoenix in 2004.
Originally the airport had no perimeter rule; in 1954-1960 airlines scheduled nonstop flights to California on piston-engine airliners.[citation needed] Scheduled jet airliners were not allowed at all until April 1966; the perimeter rule arrived with them, and apparently applied only to them. The initial perimeter was 650 statute miles (1,050 km), except that airports under 1,000 statute miles (1,600 km) that had scheduled nonstops in 1965 were allowed to retain them. This meant Minneapolis-St Paul was allowed nonstop jet flights but Kansas City, New Orleans, and Fort Lauderdale were not. In 1981 the perimeter became a flat 1,000 statute miles (1,600 km); it expanded to 1,250 statute miles (2,010 km), enough to encompass Houston, in 1986-87.
I thought at some point there were more US slots to LAS, but maybe I'm just dreaming.
Feb 8, 2012, 9:30 am
#4
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There's been only 1x daily for as long as I can remember, but the flight times move around a lot, sometimes the DCA-LAS is at ~8:30am and then it jumps to ~8pm, same with the return. That confused me for a while because I'd just book the nonstop without paying much attention, then a few months later I'd be looking at the 8pm flight wondering why I'd been able to go at 8am earlier in the year. It took a schedule change for me to finally figure it out, when my 8am flight went to 8pm and I had a big to-do with US CSR over the change.
Feb 8, 2012, 10:51 am
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I think US has a pretty good argument given the number of connections available out of DCA. DL's argument is weaker since they're pulling down much of DCA in the slot swap.
Predictions (easy ones) -
UA: DCA-LAX and DCA-SFO
DL: DCA-LAX
AA: DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-PDX
Predictions (Wild cards) -
UA: DCA-SEA
AA: DCA-SJU
US: DCA-SJU and DCA-SAN or DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-ANC (if this is possible with a 737NG (not sure if it is))
I think we're pretty much assured that LAX wil get one of these (if not more than one).
Edited to add: this is what I think what will be requested; what is granted is anyone's guess.
Predictions (easy ones) -
UA: DCA-LAX and DCA-SFO
DL: DCA-LAX
AA: DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-PDX
Predictions (Wild cards) -
UA: DCA-SEA
AA: DCA-SJU
US: DCA-SJU and DCA-SAN or DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-ANC (if this is possible with a 737NG (not sure if it is))
I think we're pretty much assured that LAX wil get one of these (if not more than one).
Edited to add: this is what I think what will be requested; what is granted is anyone's guess.
Last edited by IADCAflyer; Feb 8, 2012 at 11:04 am
Feb 8, 2012, 10:56 am
#6
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I think US has a pretty good argument given the number of connections available out of DCA. DL's argument is weaker since they're pulling down much of DCA in the slot swap.
Predictions (easy ones) -
UA: DCA-LAX and DCA-SFO
DL: DCA-LAX
AA: DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-PDX
Wild cards -
UA: DCA-SEA
AA: DCA-SJU
US: DCA-SJU and DCA-SAN or DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-ANC (if this is possible with a 737NG (not sure if it is))
I think we're pretty much assured that LAX wil get one of these (if not more than one).
Predictions (easy ones) -
UA: DCA-LAX and DCA-SFO
DL: DCA-LAX
AA: DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-PDX
Wild cards -
UA: DCA-SEA
AA: DCA-SJU
US: DCA-SJU and DCA-SAN or DCA-LAX
AS: DCA-ANC (if this is possible with a 737NG (not sure if it is))
I think we're pretty much assured that LAX wil get one of these (if not more than one).
I'm not sure about AC
I think SAN would be great. Or AUS or MSY?
Feb 8, 2012, 11:01 am
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Feb 8, 2012, 11:23 am
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Feb 8, 2012, 11:26 am
#9
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Feb 8, 2012, 11:32 am
#10
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I'd actually try DCA-SJC if I was US or AS (and AS has a nice presence at SJC- they actually will have more destinations than WN out of SJC soon). Plenty of Silicon Valley lobbyists. 
Feb 8, 2012, 11:42 am
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Feb 8, 2012, 11:42 am
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However, LCY does not allow A319s, and I think the A318 was a push to get accepted.
Feb 8, 2012, 12:35 pm
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Plus DCA does not have any immigrations/customs facilities.
Feb 8, 2012, 1:55 pm
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Feb 8, 2012, 2:50 pm
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True. But if the airline is looking for connecting passenger, it can filter them through any hub. A nonstop to DCA is most attractive to those who want to go to DCA. I would imagine that the airlines can fill the seats with fairly high revenue on this route. I would add that a PS (or similar) service to the west coast could do quite well.