Advice about about filing a D.O.T. complaint

Old May 30, 2006, 9:25 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by kinglobjaw
Were talking 2 minutes here

WELCOME to the fabulous world we call TRAVELING by AIR.

Maybe they gave your seats away and you still couldn't have gotten on the plane.

That exact thing happened to me just a few weeks ago in PHL. The spring storms coming from the midwest played havoc with PHL all friggin day. And it screwed up BOS a lot, where I happened to be.

My BOS to PHL flight was delayed but I knew I had enough time to sprint to my gate should I be a bit overdelayed. Well the ever present PHL ATC WX delays decided to screw me again.

Upon finally landing in PHL I was amazed that I had 12 minutes to spare. Well when I got to the gate for my connection, the GA just stood there and said "we've been calling for you!". I replied, "I was on an inbound flight that was stuck circling PHL?!"! She just looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language.

Needless to say, the plane was still at the gate, with the jetbridge still attached, but I didn't get to board.

They gave my seat away.

I was put on the next flight and just had to spend a few extra hours sitting in PHL.

Oh well.

It's the price you pay when you fly through PHL.
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Old May 30, 2006, 10:02 pm
  #17  
 
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I'm gonna make the same comment I made on another thread - that's really too bad, but these things happen. Twice in the last year US has gone out of their way to hook me up on a tight connect. Really out of their way. And I've been really greatful, and it's helped me to overlook some other things that haven't gone right.

In the past things have gone the other way. To coin a cliche, travelling is an adventure, and you gotta go into every trip knowing that there is a real chance things will go in the crapper. It's just the way it is. Be greatful when things go your way, and sanguine when they don't and you'll enjoy everything more.

Until they start charging for exit rows
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Old May 30, 2006, 11:46 pm
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King -- yer still not getting it.

It was due to ATC. Not USAirways' fault. There is a chance they gave your seats away, as well.

Also, there is NOTHING in FOCUS (USAirways Manual in Sabre) that says the last flight MUST be held.

Unfortunately you'll just have to suck this one in and get over it.

I've been there before and it sucks. But it is clearly stated "you must present yourself to the gate area no less than 15 minutes prior to departure or your seats are subject to cancellation".

And trust me, we're watching our inbounds (G*L123PHL/IB) .. its a simple command... and sometimes as an employee a line has to be drawn and reaccomodate some people.
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:00 am
  #19  
 
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I really do not think that this warrants a DOT complaint. US Airways did not break any law or even any company policy by not holding the airplane. The DOT should only be written when one of the above is done.

For example when an airline violates the Air Carrier Access Act of 1986 which sets guidelines for how the airlines handle disabled passengers. This is really what the DOT is set up to handle. If you are parapalegic and you were forced to sit on the airplane for a hour waiting on assistance to get off then that warrants a complaint. In this case the airline is flat our violating the law and will be fined atleast $25,000 if the complaint is valid.

Now I understand that you were inconveinced because of the ATC and that is not fun, however like I said the airline did not violate any law or company policy. I just do not understand your reasoning on writing the DOT. For an airline every second counts and those 120 seconds could mean missing curfew in a city, crew timing out, more missed connections, missing their assigned departure time, etc... And like a poster said those DOT complaints are made public and others will be able to read it and you may be judged on that, but if that doesn't bother you than by all means go right ahead.
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:17 am
  #20  
 
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In spite of all of the discussion, justification, etc., I will chime in over the question in the subject.

The address in Hoobly's link is indeed correct.


Originally Posted by hoobly
This is the web page that describes how to file a complaint:
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/problems.htm

If you want to be more specific, try the Aviation Consumer Protection Division, U.S. Department of Transportation, C-75, 400 7th St. S.W., Room 4107, Washington, D.C. 20590. E-mail [email protected], or leave a voice mail at (202) 366-2220.


FWIW, every complaint is read, reviewed, and followed up on---- most likely, if you send a complaint about US Airways, the letter will be directed immediately to US for comment. As far as tally of complaints, I don't know if every complaint is counted, or if only unresolved ones are addressed, as the DOT folks are judicious and understand some people may write directly to DOT to "make extra noise" when the matter could be dealt with by the airline itself. More than anything, the office works toward resolution in cases of a customer/airline impasse.
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:19 am
  #21  
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Let's review - last week was filled with terrible weather all over the midwest and even to the east coast. Multi-hour delays at ORD and many other airports. ATC delays galore. Ground holds all over the country. Massive delays.

Now, a passenger wants to "threaten" US for failing to sufficiently delay a connecting flight?

Anything in the US Contract of Carriage requiring that connecting flights be held for delayed pax? Nope.

Anything in the US Customer Service Plan requiring same? Nope.

Anything in federal law requiring same? Nope.

Anything in federal regulations (FAA/DOT/Any) requiring same? Nope.

Any requirement at all (contractual/federal law, etc) requiring US to furnish hotel rooms to pax when delay is weather/ATC related? Nope. None at all.

So what, exactly, would be the point of complaining to the DOT?

Frequent flyers know that the OP's experience of last week happen all the time to lots of good people. I've got news for the OP: Get used to similar delays if you spend your lifetime as a frequent flyer. Get an airline club membership and hope your preferred airline will take good care of its top-tier elites on days when the system falls apart (like last week).

I've seen airlines hold airplanes for connecting pax, but typically that's done in cases of isolated delay, not days when a majority of flights are delayed.

The OP wants "compensation" yet has articulated no basis for any compensation. Should be worth a chapter or two in the new book.
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:29 am
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
Let's review - last week was filled with terrible weather all over the midwest and even to the east coast. Multi-hour delays at ORD and many other airports. ATC delays galore. Ground holds all over the country. Massive delays.

Now, a passenger wants to "threaten" US for failing to sufficiently delay a connecting flight?

Anything in the US Contract of Carriage requiring that connecting flights be held for delayed pax? Nope.

Anything in the US Customer Service Plan requiring same? Nope.

Anything in federal law requiring same? Nope.

Anything in federal regulations (FAA/DOT/Any) requiring same? Nope.

Any requirement at all (contractual/federal law, etc) requiring US to furnish hotel rooms to pax when delay is weather/ATC related? Nope. None at all.

So what, exactly, would be the point of complaining to the DOT?

Frequent flyers know that the OP's experience of last week happen all the time to lots of good people. I've got news for the OP: Get used to similar delays if you spend your lifetime as a frequent flyer. Get an airline club membership and hope your preferred airline will take good care of its top-tier elites on days when the system falls apart (like last week).

I've seen airlines hold airplanes for connecting pax, but typically that's done in cases of isolated delay, not days when a majority of flights are delayed.

The OP wants "compensation" yet has articulated no basis for any compensation. Should be worth a chapter or two in the new book.
Great post! I am just amazed at passengers these days... (I'm an agent). I really want to know why the OP believes he deserves compensation.
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:30 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by A380US
I really do not think that this warrants a DOT complaint. US Airways did not break any law or even any company policy by not holding the airplane. The DOT should only be written when one of the above is done.
Actually your statement isn't completely accurate correct. The DOT handles any complaint that a consumer has about his or her experience with air travel. The DOT has three broad categories of complaints (i) civil rights, (ii) customer service and (iii) other. If you click here, you can see the month-by-month report on airline performance. Here's a link for the most recent report. If you scroll down to page 34, you'll see that the service complaints are subdivided into flight problems, oversales, reservation/ticketing/boarding, fares, refunds, baggage, customer service, disability, advertising, discrimination, animals, and other. As you see, the DOT handles and reports complaints over a range of subjects.


Originally Posted by A380US
For example when an airline violates the Air Carrier Access Act of 1986 which sets guidelines for how the airlines handle disabled passengers. This is really what the DOT is set up to handle. If you are parapalegic and you were forced to sit on the airplane for a hour waiting on assistance to get off then that warrants a complaint. In this case the airline is flat our violating the law and will be fined atleast $25,000 if the complaint is valid.
The DOT handles these types of complaints too; however, the DOT handles all consumer complaints about service and has a mechanism to report complaints. Service complaints are published monthly. Some papers run stories with information gleaned from these reports.


Originally Posted by A380US
Now I understand that you were inconveinced because of the ATC and that is not fun, however like I said the airline did not violate any law or company policy. I just do not understand your reasoning on writing the DOT. For an airline every second counts and those 120 seconds could mean missing curfew in a city, crew timing out, more missed connections, missing their assigned departure time, etc... And like a poster said those DOT complaints are made public and others will be able to read it and you may be judged on that, but if that doesn't bother you than by all means go right ahead.
All very true, but as I said, the DOT has a mechanism for handling complaints. I think it wise to file a complaint to the DOT if you're not happy.
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:55 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
Actually your statement isn't completely accurate correct. The DOT handles any complaint that a consumer has about his or her experience with air travel. The DOT has three broad categories of complaints (i) civil rights, (ii) customer service and (iii) other. If you click here, you can see the month-by-month report on airline performance. Here's a link for the most recent report. If you scroll down to page 34, you'll see that the service complaints are subdivided into flight problems, oversales, reservation/ticketing/boarding, fares, refunds, baggage, customer service, disability, advertising, discrimination, animals, and other. As you see, the DOT handles and reports complaints over a range of subjects.




The DOT handles these types of complaints too; however, the DOT handles all consumer complaints about service and has a mechanism to report complaints. Service complaints are published monthly. Some papers run stories with information gleaned from these reports.




All very true, but as I said, the DOT has a mechanism for handling complaints. I think it wise to file a complaint to the DOT if you're not happy.
I see that I have a one track mind when it comes to the DOT. I know if does handle all types of complaints. I spent 3 years as a supervisor for a contract company that just took care of the disabled paxs at a large US airport. I spent many hours researching and responding to complaints regarding disabled paxs, so I guess I am just really knowledgeable about that aspect. Thanks for the additional information though!

I just have a hard time justifying the OPs complaint. I know he was unhappy about what happened but what did the airline do wrong? Please help me understand this. Maybe he should write to the FAA about the ATC delays or to GOD about the weather. I know most airlines do things on a daily basis that warranr complaints but I just don't see it here...
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Old May 31, 2006, 6:26 am
  #25  
 
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IIRC, you are referring to a misconx on a flight for which you chose an out of the way routing (ORD-PHL-LAS vs the ORD-LAS direct) on a day when POTUS closed PHL and surrounding airspace.

Could your friends in ORD have helped you with that? Probably, though they weren't under any obligation to do so. Depending on the fares booked they may not have been able to as it's tough to take you from a forced connection fare'd as two separate segments to a non-stop. From a rules perspective it may have also changed your "starting point" to PHL.

Further, the last PHL-LAS may have connections in LAS. The fact that you (or anyone) are elite generally doesn't mean they should hold the plane. In your case, the doors should have been closed BEFORE you landed based on the in and outbound times you specify. In the time you wanted them to hold, it's quite possible a crew on a transcon turn with a likely delay in and outbound would have gone illegal. Once that door is closed, they're good. If it opens again, NOBODY goes, elite or not, if the duty day has been exceeded.

The best you're going to get is a "we're very sorry"... but you're likely to get a "tough luck" instead. It's not a matter of being out of touch with customers or elites. It's a matter of the greater good (other pax on the plane) taking precedence over you (and elites).
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Old May 31, 2006, 8:20 am
  #26  
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Compensation for:

1)A 72 hour vacation cut short by about 14 hours.

2) When waiting for an hour in some parking area at ORD, we asked if we could be removed from the plane (just the 3 of us) and put on an HP nonstop to LAS. The F/A's said we were going to PHL today and theres nothing we can do about it, after that comment, approximately 55 minutes sitting in some remote parking area watching out the window and seeing 2 HP Airbus departing to PHX and LAS, 1 more arriving from the west.

3) We were connecting to the last flight departing to LAS, where in LAS we were connecting on our second connection to the LAST and ONLY flight to PSP.

4) Im a seriously hoping all of you are realizing that this is no typo 2 minutes. The 757 was still standing there, you could see it through the window!

5) When we were waiting at ORD for that 1 hour, we were allowed to use cell phones and computers, so I logged on using my laptop, to the internet to check flight info, and seat buckets. The plane had 4 seats still left in F, and a minimum of 9 left in Y, so there was a ton of space.

6) The location of the arrv flight into PHL, and departing from PHL. This was not some Terminal A to F connection, or B to A, or C to A, or even B to C, this was B6 to B15, roughly 20 seconds running.

7) I was in row 3 on the 737 in F cabin, was the 2nd to get off the plane. You Sabre system was able to see, that I wasnt in Exit row like my parents or anyone in the back, I was real upfront, being the first batch of PAX to depart.

8) If available, failure to want to look into later flight departing on other airlines.

9) Offering of a hotel near EWR for the discounted price, in a different state. When I logged on the internet at least 10 hotels- Renaissance, Courtyard, Fairfield to name a few were all available with a ton of vacancy.

10) Hotel not being offered for free by anyone, not US, not the ATC, not anyone. Everyone decides to push the blame from one person to another

11) A mention of weather comes up as a way to again shift the blame to someone else. Though we had some rain/ thunderstorms at 8 AM on Wednesday May 24, 2006, the weather was perfect afterwards, and our flight was at 4:05 PM Why lie to pax and make more excuses?

12) The 757 to LAS didnt even fly away yet, and the one GA was already changed and walking away from the podium. She didnt care that were supposed to make that flight, she didnt respond at me asking her to do something about that plane. She just laughed at me pleading to her for some kind of help. She just said, its gone baby, and Im not gonna anything for you, then she got her a$$ on the us airways electi-cart and drove away.

13) When I later walked up to some other agents, they asked me why am I not on that flight, that it leaves at 9 38PM at B16. I told them B16 is empty, they told me they should have held US649.

14) usairways.com states that our flight from ORD arrived at 9:27PM, and the LAS connection left at 9:38PM. Thats 11 minutes. Then why wasnt the LAS flight there at 9:29PM, but instead moving away from the gate

15) The special services counter has 1 person working a line of 50 people, numerous agents sitting in boarding areas and joking around and doing nothing, only after my Mom started yelling at them, then did 10 counters magically open up ready to assist passengers.

16) In an effort to see if Special services counters at A,C,F had less lines, I with my 10lb laptop, and 15lb bookbag walked to the high, high A gates, back to C gates, and to F gates. I was getting real tired from the walking, so I asked if they would page an electri-cart for me, since the stuff I carried was real heavy, they told me everything is right around the corner, youre young, and electri-carts are for more needy people than you!

17) Fiasco with bags. Everyone told us, before we go to hotel, we must find our bags somewhere in the B/C baggage claim. After 30 minutes of looking for bags, the Baggage office tells us the bags are in a sorting facility, and I will see them in Palm Springs (which was real good), but the fact we were told to go look for them, and after 30 minutes, were not getting them, miscommunication, that is unacceptable.
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Old May 31, 2006, 8:44 am
  #27  
 
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If you would have cracked out your 10lb laptop pre-departure, you may have been able to realize there were all sorts of backup in PHL and then at ORD asked for the reroute.

Once you got on the plane ORD-PHL, you were at the whim of that flight and the rest of the downline effects.

You also had the ability to use your cellphone while holding in ORD, call up Gold Res and say you were going to misconnect and see if they could protect you on another flight, or perhaps another airline.

There were definitely some things out of your control, but they could have been better influcenced by some decision making on your part as well. The airline did the best that they could under situations to which they could not control. US can't say "hurry up Mr. President, mr. kinglobjaw needs to make his connection to LAS". You are one of many people on many airlines that felt the effects of a presidential landing on an airport.

I'm with everyone else, a DOT complaint is worthless.

-JC
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Old May 31, 2006, 8:48 am
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Originally Posted by kinglobjaw
... numerous agents sitting in boarding areas and joking around and doing nothing, only after my Mom started yelling at them, then did 10 counters magically open up ready to assist passengers...
I'm in awe. Maybe we've found the answer to getting PHL in shape..... US, are ya listenin'?
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Old May 31, 2006, 9:46 am
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Since I'm bored today, I'll take a crack at this point by point....

Originally Posted by kinglobjaw
Compensation for:
1)A 72 hour vacation cut short by about 14 hours.
Read the contract of carriage. It says they'll make their "best effort" to get you to your destination at the published time. That's about as legally loose as I can think of. If it were that big a deal, you could have asked to be returned to ORD and trip-in-vain'ed.

2) When waiting for an hour in some parking area at ORD, we asked if we could be removed from the plane (just the 3 of us) and put on an HP nonstop to LAS. The F/A's said we were going to PHL today and theres nothing we can do about it, after that comment, approximately 55 minutes sitting in some remote parking area watching out the window and seeing 2 HP Airbus departing to PHX and LAS, 1 more arriving from the west.
Do you really expect them to turn the plane around and take you back? Of course, that would cause everyone else trying to get to PHL to lose their place in line at ORD and in the arrival queue at PHL. It isn't about YOU. There are others on the plane who probably would have been at least as inconvenienced as you.

3) We were connecting to the last flight departing to LAS, where in LAS we were connecting on our second connection to the LAST and ONLY flight to PSP.
So you're telling us that you booked a double connection, on purpose, for a 72 hour vacation? And you expect compensation for a misconnection? Surely you jest.

4) Im a seriously hoping all of you are realizing that this is no typo 2 minutes. The 757 was still standing there, you could see it through the window!
Perhaps you didn't notice that there is no typo in "once the doors are closed they won't be reopened? We've all been there and watched a closed flight leave because our inbound was late. Bottom line, 11 minutes isn't enough to make ANY connection, especially with checked bags. Why would you check bags for a 72 hour trip?

5) When we were waiting at ORD for that 1 hour, we were allowed to use cell phones and computers, so I logged on using my laptop, to the internet to check flight info, and seat buckets. The plane had 4 seats still left in F, and a minimum of 9 left in Y, so there was a ton of space.
On a 757, there's still likely 150+ other people, many of whom have connections just like you, who need to get where they're going. It's the GA's call - inconvenience 3, or inconvenience 150? Also, you're Gold... how many CPs would have been inconvenienced?

6) The location of the arrv flight into PHL, and departing from PHL. This was not some Terminal A to F connection, or B to A, or C to A, or even B to C, this was B6 to B15, roughly 20 seconds running.
.... but from your timetable, we know that the flight was already closed and seats given away. You don't know how many open seats were on that flight. It is also entirely possible that you weren't there, so they gave your seats away to standbys - not uncommon in irrops.

7) I was in row 3 on the 737 in F cabin, was the 2nd to get off the plane. You Sabre system was able to see, that I wasnt in Exit row like my parents or anyone in the back, I was real upfront, being the first batch of PAX to depart.
Doesn't matter. Your seats were likely already gone. The door was closed, the crew may have gone illegal had they waited.

8) If available, failure to want to look into later flight departing on other airlines.
To PSP? From PHL? At 930pm? In your dreams.

9) Offering of a hotel near EWR for the discounted price, in a different state. When I logged on the internet at least 10 hotels- Renaissance, Courtyard, Fairfield to name a few were all available with a ton of vacancy.
Probably the single biggest failure on US' part. Why they couldn't get you a distressed pax rate I don't know. Could be a ton of other misconx thanks to POTUS and hotels wouldn't release the rooms. US can't make distressed hotels appear, no matter how hard they try.

10) Hotel not being offered for free by anyone, not US, not the ATC, not anyone. Everyone decides to push the blame from one person to another
You were not entitled to a free hotel. From anyone. Get over it.

11) A mention of weather comes up as a way to again shift the blame to someone else. Though we had some rain/ thunderstorms at 8 AM on Wednesday May 24, 2006, the weather was perfect afterwards, and our flight was at 4:05 PM Why lie to pax and make more excuses?
You do realize that they may not have been telling you stories. You had T-storms in the morning... where do you think they went? Into thin air? Clear wx at ORD and PHL doesn't mean clear wx in between. It can be perfect in both places and you'll get a hold for convective activity enroute. DUAT high altitude briefings would tell you this if you were a pilot, if not, I'm not sure where you could get them other than to look at weather.com and guesstimate based on what you see, though you cannot always "see" the things dangerous to flight.

12) The 757 to LAS didnt even fly away yet, and the one GA was already changed and walking away from the podium. She didnt care that were supposed to make that flight, she didnt respond at me asking her to do something about that plane. She just laughed at me pleading to her for some kind of help. She just said, its gone baby, and Im not gonna anything for you, then she got her a$$ on the us airways electi-cart and drove away.
Welcome to PHL, where you forced your connection. Fact is, the plane was closed and probably going through start/pushback procedures. You weren't getting on that plane, no matter how hard you begged. She could have checked alternatives (which at that time you would have found non-existant) or politely directed you to special services. Most of the time GA's can't just give out vouchers willy-nilly, you know.

13) When I later walked up to some other agents, they asked me why am I not on that flight, that it leaves at 9 38PM at B16. I told them B16 is empty, they told me they should have held US649.
Perhaps they got an earlier ATC release, who knows. I have a hard time buying your timetable, to be honest.

14) usairways.com states that our flight from ORD arrived at 9:27PM, and the LAS connection left at 9:38PM. Thats 11 minutes. Then why wasnt the LAS flight there at 9:29PM, but instead moving away from the gate
Do you know your watch is accurate down to the minute? Surely as a "legitimate" gold, you would know that when irrops happen they get you going as soon as they're released. Miss your assigned slot? Wait longer. Probably a whole lot longer. Even if your timeline is accurate, the door should have been closed when you got there.

15) The special services counter has 1 person working a line of 50 people, numerous agents sitting in boarding areas and joking around and doing nothing, only after my Mom started yelling at them, then did 10 counters magically open up ready to assist passengers.
If this actually happened at PHL, your mom must be one helluva mad lady!

16) In an effort to see if Special services counters at A,C,F had less lines, I with my 10lb laptop, and 15lb bookbag walked to the high, high A gates, back to C gates, and to F gates. I was getting real tired from the walking, so I asked if they would page an electri-cart for me, since the stuff I carried was real heavy, they told me everything is right around the corner, youre young, and electri-carts are for more needy people than you!
Most of us lug around heavy briefcases and rollaboards. We don't get carts, we're not as young as you and we can suck it up. Especially as your described path puts you on busses and people movers most of the way if you had stopped to think. B-C-F-A-C.

17) Fiasco with bags. Everyone told us, before we go to hotel, we must find our bags somewhere in the B/C baggage claim. After 30 minutes of looking for bags, the Baggage office tells us the bags are in a sorting facility, and I will see them in Palm Springs (which was real good), but the fact we were told to go look for them, and after 30 minutes, were not getting them, miscommunication, that is unacceptable.
When you are stuck overnight, you won't get your bags. On any airline. They're not tagged to come out in PHL so it's a bigger chore than you think to find them. Imagine if every misconnection demanded a bag that had to be pulled, by hand, from a holding area based on the name on the tag.

Long and the short of it, you're getting nothing. You don't have a "case". The airline did everything they were required to do by their contract of carriage/etc.
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Old May 31, 2006, 10:15 am
  #30  
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Yup, McFlyPHL my Mom was angry as hell and IS one helluva lady! She just called up Tempe, AZ, I gave her a special #, I found on the internet. She called them up, the lady apologized, said it was a misunderstanding in the system. They will reimburse us for the hotel in Philly, and we will get some compensation a la those US Airways vouchers (I believe they are $50 dollars per person) My mom was nice, but she did mention she would contact the DOT otherwise. Contrary to what most of you said...
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