jimcfsus

He's probably in WAS lobbying to get the Wright Amendment repealed.

I'll fly in an RJ rather than put up with the cattle drive anyday. I like to know where I'm sitting instead of taking what the stampede gives me. Yes, I've flown SW a few times on the left coast, so I'm not just blowing smoke.

FWAAA

I find the WN website to be vastly superior to that of any other airline. It actually tells me which segments are cheap and which are expensive and lets me choose them segment by segment. Compared to aa.com, the WN website rocks.

Small, old 737s? Guess you've not seen the facts on WN's fleet. Lots of new 737-700s, a bunch of not-so-old 737-300s and a few 735s. Compare that to the dumpy props and RJs you'll find on many US routes.

Nothing to eat? Free snack box (that AA and others now sell) and a full can of soda. If you're a frequent flyer, free alcohol. Compare that to those props and RJs that US gives you.

RoyalFlush

Misadvertised – is that even a word? Please provide a source for this slanderous statement.

Those “fools” now run one of the most successful corporations in America. Bringing down the economy? Suggested reading: The Southwest Effect by the Dept. of Transportation.

Maybe open up your eyes. Southwest was the launch customer for the Boeing 737-300, 737-500, and the Next-Generation Boeing 737-700.

Southwest will take delivery of 25 new airframes this year. Boeing can’t build them fast enough.
I consider it extremely professional when my call is answered promptly (by an American), when I get a no-BS attitude from all at that company and they don’t bend me over collecting ludicrous fees.
What you get on SWA long hauls is a feast compared to others.

shinbal

They're tough to avoid for nonstops at BWI. I certainly don't hate the airline.....I admire their ability to turn a profit. They're a marketing machine. And I will say this for Southwest Airlines: They entrench themselves in the communities they enter, from a public service and from a sponsorship standpoint. They make themselves "the people's airline". I'd also like to thank them for dropping the fares in a lot of markets. I've been able to travel on my preferred carrier, US, for much less than US was willing to charge before SWA's arrival.

That being said, as I have watched the demise of US Airways in Baltimore since 1993, I've been one of the people taking connections on US everywhere that Southwest flies to nonstop. I love my upgrades and my preferred boarding, and I love my CP line. I love the fact that I have been to Europe multiple times in business class, for free, both on US, and on *A carriers.

What I guess bothers me the most is the perception that they're "always the cheapest airline". I consistently find better fares out of BWI on the legacies. LA for Example.....I'm always able to get UA for what I consider significant savings over Southwest. In my town, they are a quiet, but very shrewd and well-managed monopoly.

I laugh when I read people's comments that there's a "class" of people that fly Southwest. I just don't buy that social status thing between major and discount carriers anymore. Yes, it's a cattle car...especially when I watch 30% of a 737 get to preboard for the most ridiculous reasons.

But I think many frequent fliers of the legacy carriers "hate" Southwest because they've done things that their own preferred carrier can't, won't, or hasn't tried to do, and then spend all their time playing catch-up. I can probably put it best with a baseball example. I love to hate the NY Yankees. I scoff at their $200M payroll and their "arrogance". But really, as an Orioles fan, I just get mad that my stadium is dark every October.

pitflyer

Before Southwest came to PIT I would amuse myself at airports by sitting at Southwest gates and watch the cattle call. Now, as I have learned from Flyertalk, you can check in at 12:01am, be sure to get an A boarding pass, and be the last person to board in A and still get a window or aisle seat with open middle (at least initially), along with no change fees and full beverage service on a 30 minute packed flight, I think Southwest is the one that laughs last. Especially since I still have a million miles+ banked in various legacy airlines to get me to international destinations in style, but when I just need to go to Vegas, the Greyhound bus of the sky just does me fine.

trvlr64

Not a hypocrit, just getting sick and tired of being raped by USAirways. If you bothered to read my 1st posting you'd have noticed that I said WN didn't raped me over a change to my ticket that unfortunately I had to change 3 times. US got an extra $300 out of me for the change fee. And they made an extra $200 on the change of fare class. Again my ticket which started out being only $175.00 ended up costing $675.00 basically. WN only made a measly $34 total for those 3 changes.

I'm rebuking only 3 points out of your 15 point tirade. Those 3 affect me. Maybe they don't always affect you. And for your information, I only use WN when I absolutely have to. Living in dehubbed PIT still means I fly US because it gets me to work and back. And sometimes I don't have a choice but to fly WN since I'm headquartered out of the Boston area and when my corporate travel says WN is charging only $250 r/t (pit to mht) and US is charging $940 r/t (pit - bos), who do you think I'm going to have to fly?

And yes I love my FC seat that I get 100% of the time I fly. But atleast WN planes are clean. And no I don't like the unassigned seat fiasco that WN uses but if you know how to play the game you always get an "A" boarding card and can usually get exit row or bulk head.

I used to sound like you. I've been flying US for 9 years almost weekly. But I finally discovered there is more to worry about than an airline. I play the game, plain and simple. I work their system to my benefit. And I have benefited from it for 9 years. Plus it taught me how to play the game at NW for 2 years and that got me Gold status with them.

So if you don't know how to play the game you'll never win. And remember, it's only a plane. It's transportation from point A to point B. How you use it to benefit you is the most important thing.

And 1 more thing. WN just announced PIT to PHX and another PIT to LAS. YIPPEE!! This just means all my west coast travel just became significantly cheaper. No more flying UA to the west coast and I can remain on the "new USAirways" and get reasonable airfares. So I'll always remain a cockroach on US, why?, because I know how to play the game.

You may not like WN, that's your choice. But they do have a simple strategy that the other airlines fail to use. Price accordingly.




Side note........go back and re-read your reply above. Forget how to use spell check?

ClueByFour

To be fair, you only get those fares on the legacies because of Southwest's presence. What were those same fares pre-LUV in BWI?

dcmike

You'll find many threads on the UA board on how the UA site allows you to reprice and receive credit if the fare drops. I think a lot of airlines do allow this, but just don't publish it.

I've flown WN once. I thought the employees were wonderful, and, despite the stereotypes above, on my mid-week flight, there were mainly business people.

I've never flown WN again for one simple reason - no reserved seating. I deeply resented having to line up for up to two hours before the flight just to be assured of getting a good seat. If they did seating assignments, I wouldn't say they'd be my primary airline, but I'd fly them more often.

I know the cost argument - tack on an extra $10 each way for a reserved seat and I'd pay it. Board the reserved seats, then open up the cattle call.

kennyboy3

In my favorite episode of AIRLINE, there is the GA getting into it with this very rude and very angry arab(?) guy who just keeps saying...

I HATE SATH-VEST.

It is hilarious.

Never flown them though. And never will.

Love US Airways too much.

exerda

Speaking of "Airline," it amazes me the number of people who identify with the pax rather than the GAs and CSRs shown. I can't stand the show--maybe too much WN for me? --but when I have watched it, it seems to mostly (at least 75%) be rude pax who have caused their own problems and are blaming it on the airline staff.

Yet my family and friends who do often watch say, "I can't believe how badly those people treat the passengers."

pitflyer

I watch the show Airline when I want my wife to watch me yell at a TV.

And yes, I'm usually yelling at the stupid pax.

AZ Travels the World

I have heard this argument before but I don't how understand how it's substantiated. I'm hoping you can shed some light on it for me.

Today, SW has preboarding, followed by groups A, B & C, boarding a total of x passengers. Elite preboarding would look like current preboarding plus elites, followed by groups A, B & C, still boarding a total of x passengers. Or, group A becomes elite members and everyone else boards in B and C. Either way, all you're doing is funneling 10 people, at the most, into the jetway before the masses, for the same total of x passengers in the same amount of time. Can you help me understand where the additional cost comes in?

Same thing at security. In PHX SW pays for two people to sit there on stools, checking ID. HP pays for the same number on the opposite concourse. HP has an extra line for elite members funneling into one of the people. SW doesn't. Same number of passengers going through the two ID checkers, where's the extra cost?

What's the additional the "non-labor" cost that is so significant that it wouldn't be offset by additional business travelers buying their most expensive tickets?


When you really break it down, how so? Or, perhaps the question is, so what? Making a couple of very low- or no-cost changes to how they do things takes the model they've arguably perfected and tailors it to a large additional segment of the flying population who won't even consider them today because of these three issues: elite check-in, security line and boarding. How will doing those three things negatively impact everything else they're doing so right?

They don't have to give "poor consultant" everything the legacy carriers give him, but these seemingly little things make WN a non-starter for poor consultant today and that could change, dramatically, if WN addressed them.

curbcrusher

WN seems to be doing very well without tweaking their product for the benefit of the "poor consultant." If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

fireworksboy

Too late - please see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...7&page=1&pp=15

AZ Travels the World

Which is to say that either they're satisfied with the volume and yield they're currently getting and have no need or interest in doing anything different in order to increase either of them, or they don't believe that such changes would have that impact.

I just have a hard time believing that either is the case. I think they're leaving money on the table.