Earlier demise of "The Bayer Express"
Jan 25, 2005, 6:21 pm
#31
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Originally Posted by planeluvr
Wouldn't the route be announced by now if it was to start up in March?
I agree with our UVA fan, my next trip to FRA will be via CLT. Usually, I don't have business in FRA.......I'm connecting somewhere else in Europe/India. The nonstop to FRA gives me many more options and sure saves lots of time.
Jan 26, 2005, 12:39 am
#33
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PIT/LAX
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Originally Posted by HPTunco
During my rerouting and sojourn this past week, I spoke with a German passenger (Bayer employee) who also was rerouted to MUC when our PIT-PHL flight took 6 hours to get us across the state, missing the FRA flight. He told me that LH would pick up the PIT/FRA route in March. He later indicated that he was a Bayer employee living in PIT.
With the terrible state of inefficiency that the PHL facility is in, and the gross inconvenience that is consistently imposed on passengers, LH picking up at gate at PIT would be a godsend to people in this area......especially those with business in Europe/India.
I hope that this rumour is correct! PIT-PHL-Europe has been a great source of frustration for those of us who head in that direction frequently.
With the terrible state of inefficiency that the PHL facility is in, and the gross inconvenience that is consistently imposed on passengers, LH picking up at gate at PIT would be a godsend to people in this area......especially those with business in Europe/India.
I hope that this rumour is correct! PIT-PHL-Europe has been a great source of frustration for those of us who head in that direction frequently.
Jan 26, 2005, 3:00 pm
#34
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Originally Posted by jkzahn
I would think it would've been announced by now..............but I sure hope it is true. I refuse to go PHL, and even my CLT 2 weeks ago was delayed by...7...yes, I said 7 hours.
The CLT flight arrives at 10AM, so connections before noon are difficult/impossible. If they'd move this up, there would be nobody on the PHL/FRA flights!
Jan 26, 2005, 9:57 pm
#35
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Folks, I don't want to spoil your party here, but I think a LH non-stop to PIT this march is more than unlikely.
LH has a habit of adding US-destinations every two years, and so after the addition of PDX last spring (I'm not sure when they started the MUC-CLT flight but that may be an exception because it is not served from FRA first which again is a usual procedure with LH) this year there was no addition to be expected. If they add destinations the usually annouce these in late fall for the start of the summer schedule in March.
Apart from that LH is terribly short on long-haul aircraft. They just don't have the metal to fly such a route. They even were not able to react with any defending measures against CO and DL entering secondary-markets (TXL and HAM) that had no long-haul flights before.
And LH has returned most (if not all) short-term leased planes recently and has learned a bitter lesson with these as they did not seamlessly integrate into their fleet but instead caused major customer illwill (especially those pesky 767s leased from Austrian). So I guess any expansion will come from new Airbii delivered from their own orders, and while therer are quite a few planes scheduled to come in I think all of them are already assigned to routes.
So if PIT becomes a LH-destination, you won't see their tail there before 2006 in my opinion...
Greetings - Dirk
LH has a habit of adding US-destinations every two years, and so after the addition of PDX last spring (I'm not sure when they started the MUC-CLT flight but that may be an exception because it is not served from FRA first which again is a usual procedure with LH) this year there was no addition to be expected. If they add destinations the usually annouce these in late fall for the start of the summer schedule in March.
Apart from that LH is terribly short on long-haul aircraft. They just don't have the metal to fly such a route. They even were not able to react with any defending measures against CO and DL entering secondary-markets (TXL and HAM) that had no long-haul flights before.
And LH has returned most (if not all) short-term leased planes recently and has learned a bitter lesson with these as they did not seamlessly integrate into their fleet but instead caused major customer illwill (especially those pesky 767s leased from Austrian). So I guess any expansion will come from new Airbii delivered from their own orders, and while therer are quite a few planes scheduled to come in I think all of them are already assigned to routes.
So if PIT becomes a LH-destination, you won't see their tail there before 2006 in my opinion...
Greetings - Dirk
Jan 27, 2005, 7:33 am
#36
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Disappointing, but great insight. Danka!
Originally Posted by djohannw
Folks, I don't want to spoil your party here, but I think a LH non-stop to PIT this march is more than unlikely.
LH has a habit of adding US-destinations every two years, and so after the addition of PDX last spring (I'm not sure when they started the MUC-CLT flight but that may be an exception because it is not served from FRA first which again is a usual procedure with LH) this year there was no addition to be expected. If they add destinations the usually annouce these in late fall for the start of the summer schedule in March.
Apart from that LH is terribly short on long-haul aircraft. They just don't have the metal to fly such a route. They even were not able to react with any defending measures against CO and DL entering secondary-markets (TXL and HAM) that had no long-haul flights before.
And LH has returned most (if not all) short-term leased planes recently and has learned a bitter lesson with these as they did not seamlessly integrate into their fleet but instead caused major customer illwill (especially those pesky 767s leased from Austrian). So I guess any expansion will come from new Airbii delivered from their own orders, and while therer are quite a few planes scheduled to come in I think all of them are already assigned to routes.
So if PIT becomes a LH-destination, you won't see their tail there before 2006 in my opinion...
Greetings - Dirk
LH has a habit of adding US-destinations every two years, and so after the addition of PDX last spring (I'm not sure when they started the MUC-CLT flight but that may be an exception because it is not served from FRA first which again is a usual procedure with LH) this year there was no addition to be expected. If they add destinations the usually annouce these in late fall for the start of the summer schedule in March.
Apart from that LH is terribly short on long-haul aircraft. They just don't have the metal to fly such a route. They even were not able to react with any defending measures against CO and DL entering secondary-markets (TXL and HAM) that had no long-haul flights before.
And LH has returned most (if not all) short-term leased planes recently and has learned a bitter lesson with these as they did not seamlessly integrate into their fleet but instead caused major customer illwill (especially those pesky 767s leased from Austrian). So I guess any expansion will come from new Airbii delivered from their own orders, and while therer are quite a few planes scheduled to come in I think all of them are already assigned to routes.
So if PIT becomes a LH-destination, you won't see their tail there before 2006 in my opinion...
Greetings - Dirk
Jan 27, 2005, 8:44 am
#37
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wesseling, NRW, Germany
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FWIW I have been partly proved wrong just today as LH has loaded a new transatlantic flight for the summer schedule - much more in line with their usual habits however as it is a FRA-Destination that now is also offered from MUC.
From May 2nd LH starts a daily supplement to UA's MUC-IAD as LH414/415 using a three-class A343, currently scheduled for the summer only. Departs MUC daily a 3:10pm arr. IAD 6:20pm, departs IAD 8:10pm and arrives back to MUC at 10:25 the next day.
So with even another flight scheduled with no substantial new plane arrival chances are getting even slimmer...
Greetings - Dirk
From May 2nd LH starts a daily supplement to UA's MUC-IAD as LH414/415 using a three-class A343, currently scheduled for the summer only. Departs MUC daily a 3:10pm arr. IAD 6:20pm, departs IAD 8:10pm and arrives back to MUC at 10:25 the next day.
So with even another flight scheduled with no substantial new plane arrival chances are getting even slimmer...
Greetings - Dirk
Jan 27, 2005, 9:34 am
#38
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I trust that you will keep us advised as to if LH will ever come to PIT. It seems that you'll know before any of us! Thanks for the update!
Originally Posted by djohannw
FWIW I have been partly proved wrong just today as LH has loaded a new transatlantic flight for the summer schedule - much more in line with their usual habits however as it is a FRA-Destination that now is also offered from MUC.
From May 2nd LH starts a daily supplement to UA's MUC-IAD as LH414/415 using a three-class A343, currently scheduled for the summer only. Departs MUC daily a 3:10pm arr. IAD 6:20pm, departs IAD 8:10pm and arrives back to MUC at 10:25 the next day.
So with even another flight scheduled with no substantial new plane arrival chances are getting even slimmer...
Greetings - Dirk
From May 2nd LH starts a daily supplement to UA's MUC-IAD as LH414/415 using a three-class A343, currently scheduled for the summer only. Departs MUC daily a 3:10pm arr. IAD 6:20pm, departs IAD 8:10pm and arrives back to MUC at 10:25 the next day.
So with even another flight scheduled with no substantial new plane arrival chances are getting even slimmer...
Greetings - Dirk
Mar 16, 2005, 12:15 am
#39
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PIT/LAX
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Onorato woos two European airlines
Wednesday, March 16, 2005
By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
When Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato flew to and from Europe on his recent trade mission, all you had to do was to check his flight itinerary to see where he had his sights set.
Onorato flew from Newark to Europe on Scandinavian Airlines and he returned from Europe via Philadelphia on Lufthansa Airlines. He hopes to recruit one or both of those carriers to serve Pittsburgh International Airport.
County, Airport Authority and local business leaders have been courting Lufthansa for some time. But as a result of his trip to Denmark and Germany, Onorato also is hoping to have discussions with Scandinavian Airlines about the possibility of beginning service between Pittsburgh and Europe.
That lead came about chiefly by happenstance. A businessman who has ties to Scandinavian Airlines Chief Executive Officer Jorgen Lindegaard attended one of the dinner meetings held by Onorato and Pittsburgh Regional Alliance officials in Denmark and promised to help arrange a meeting.
Onorato said he turned the data over to Airport Authority Executive Director Kent George, who will be following up.
"What I kept pounding home [in meetings overseas] is that we're committed to getting direct flights to Europe," Onorato said.
Scandinavian Airlines offers service from the United States to Europe, mainly through Newark and New York. Most of its network is based in Europe, although it also flies to some Asian countries.
George called Scandinavian "another possibility," although the primary focus to this point has been Lufthansa.
Pittsburgh has been without nonstop European service since November, when US Airways dropped its flights to London and Frankfurt.
Onorato described his Friday meeting with Lufthansa officials as "positive," saying the airline still has an interest in nonstop Pittsburgh service.
Lufthansa is considering two options. One involves service exclusively for business travelers using 48-seat jets, modified Boeing 737s. The other involves regular passenger service using much larger jets with separate business and coach classes.
"We're looking at both options, not one or the other. We're looking at both," Onorato said.
Although Lufthansa gave him no timetable for making a decision, he said he was encouraged by the meeting with that carrier and the possible lead on Scandinavian Airlines.
"I really believe the airport is going to be fine long-term. We're going to have more low-cost carriers, more domestic carriers, and I do believe we will get direct flights to Europe," he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Mark Belko can be reached at [email protected] or 412-263-1262.)
Wednesday, March 16, 2005
By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
When Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato flew to and from Europe on his recent trade mission, all you had to do was to check his flight itinerary to see where he had his sights set.
Onorato flew from Newark to Europe on Scandinavian Airlines and he returned from Europe via Philadelphia on Lufthansa Airlines. He hopes to recruit one or both of those carriers to serve Pittsburgh International Airport.
County, Airport Authority and local business leaders have been courting Lufthansa for some time. But as a result of his trip to Denmark and Germany, Onorato also is hoping to have discussions with Scandinavian Airlines about the possibility of beginning service between Pittsburgh and Europe.
That lead came about chiefly by happenstance. A businessman who has ties to Scandinavian Airlines Chief Executive Officer Jorgen Lindegaard attended one of the dinner meetings held by Onorato and Pittsburgh Regional Alliance officials in Denmark and promised to help arrange a meeting.
Onorato said he turned the data over to Airport Authority Executive Director Kent George, who will be following up.
"What I kept pounding home [in meetings overseas] is that we're committed to getting direct flights to Europe," Onorato said.
Scandinavian Airlines offers service from the United States to Europe, mainly through Newark and New York. Most of its network is based in Europe, although it also flies to some Asian countries.
George called Scandinavian "another possibility," although the primary focus to this point has been Lufthansa.
Pittsburgh has been without nonstop European service since November, when US Airways dropped its flights to London and Frankfurt.
Onorato described his Friday meeting with Lufthansa officials as "positive," saying the airline still has an interest in nonstop Pittsburgh service.
Lufthansa is considering two options. One involves service exclusively for business travelers using 48-seat jets, modified Boeing 737s. The other involves regular passenger service using much larger jets with separate business and coach classes.
"We're looking at both options, not one or the other. We're looking at both," Onorato said.
Although Lufthansa gave him no timetable for making a decision, he said he was encouraged by the meeting with that carrier and the possible lead on Scandinavian Airlines.
"I really believe the airport is going to be fine long-term. We're going to have more low-cost carriers, more domestic carriers, and I do believe we will get direct flights to Europe," he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Mark Belko can be reached at [email protected] or 412-263-1262.)
Mar 16, 2005, 7:34 am
#41
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While I'd like to see SK come to somewhere more convenient than EWR for me, as I tend to get to CPH occasionally, I just can't see why they'd start PIT service.
Mar 16, 2005, 8:02 am
#42
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Originally Posted by phlwookie
While I'd like to see SK come to somewhere more convenient than EWR for me, as I tend to get to CPH occasionally, I just can't see why they'd start PIT service.
With LCCs on the way to PIT the feeder flights that US has removed (and supposedly made the FRA flight unjustifiable) will be rebuilding. I'm encouraged that our local officials are proactively pursuing direct Euroland flights and believe that they will be successful in the end. ^
Mar 16, 2005, 9:51 am
#43
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Originally Posted by HPTunco
I have to think that SAS is a dream proposal. LH is the real target and makes the most sense for both parties. A LH flight direct to FRA would draw people from not just the PIT area, but also Cleveland.
With LCCs on the way to PIT the feeder flights that US has removed (and supposedly made the FRA flight unjustifiable) will be rebuilding. I'm encouraged that our local officials are proactively pursuing direct Euroland flights and believe that they will be successful in the end. ^
With LCCs on the way to PIT the feeder flights that US has removed (and supposedly made the FRA flight unjustifiable) will be rebuilding. I'm encouraged that our local officials are proactively pursuing direct Euroland flights and believe that they will be successful in the end. ^
If the service happens, it seems to me it has to happen on the strength of PIT's O and D, and the feed from US.
Mar 16, 2005, 11:03 am
#44
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Originally Posted by murphy
How does LCC feed help? I may be wrong, but I don't think you can book an interline itinerary with either Southwest or Jet Blue, can you? Do you think many people will buy two separate tickets, and be out of luck when trying to check bags through or having the first leg delayed?
If the service happens, it seems to me it has to happen on the strength of PIT's O and D, and the feed from US.
If the service happens, it seems to me it has to happen on the strength of PIT's O and D, and the feed from US.
Could a traveler or agent cobble together fares through PIT to save money? YES
Is PIT waiting for US to reestablish flights? NO
Sure, it's more convenient to check bags through and have one continuous ticket, but people do many elaborate things with regard to saving money on airline tickets. Don't underestimate the creativity and resolve of passengers who can save hundreds of dollars by flying LCC to PIT, then on to Europe.
Any new flights will help to feed the proposed European flights from PIT. The O/D from PIT will sustain it with the added load from connecting passengers.
Mar 16, 2005, 11:39 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,531
Originally Posted by HPTunco
Is this possible? YES
Could a traveler or agent cobble together fares through PIT to save money? YES
Is PIT waiting for US to reestablish flights? NO
Sure, it's more convenient to check bags through and have one continuous ticket, but people do many elaborate things with regard to saving money on airline tickets. Don't underestimate the creativity and resolve of passengers who can save hundreds of dollars by flying LCC to PIT, then on to Europe.
Any new flights will help to feed the proposed European flights from PIT. The O/D from PIT will sustain it with the added load from connecting passengers.
Could a traveler or agent cobble together fares through PIT to save money? YES
Is PIT waiting for US to reestablish flights? NO
Sure, it's more convenient to check bags through and have one continuous ticket, but people do many elaborate things with regard to saving money on airline tickets. Don't underestimate the creativity and resolve of passengers who can save hundreds of dollars by flying LCC to PIT, then on to Europe.
Any new flights will help to feed the proposed European flights from PIT. The O/D from PIT will sustain it with the added load from connecting passengers.