Maximum 4 FLIGHTS per direction on * Awards. Is this new?
Sep 9, 2013, 10:47 am
#1
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Maximum 4 FLIGHTS per direction on * Awards. Is this new?
I know the official "Rules" seem to be hidden but just spent 90 mins booking SYD-YYT (Newfoundland) on Air Canada.
Not having basic rules published wastes everyone's time.
Should be simple. I'd sussed out dates that had "I" inventory on them all, and phoned it in.
After a long time on hold agent advised only max 4 CONNECTIONS each way are allowed.
Simple fix. Took out 2.
She tries it again after a long hold and then tells me 4 SEGMENTS max.
Told her 5 flights = 4 connections - was she sure? Checked again and says yes.
So get it to 4 SEGMENTS and her latest "rule" was that YVR-SYD on Air China was 'not allowed' as it goes via Asia.
I told her it was purely transit, the UA website offered it both ways with no issues, and frankly I'd prefer to be on the AC direct, as 10 hours less flying one way, but there were no seats on AC.
Before I waste any more time on this, does anyone know for SURE if there is a cap on transfers/segments in each direction for Star partners?
Glen
Not having basic rules published wastes everyone's time.
Should be simple. I'd sussed out dates that had "I" inventory on them all, and phoned it in.
After a long time on hold agent advised only max 4 CONNECTIONS each way are allowed.
Simple fix. Took out 2.
She tries it again after a long hold and then tells me 4 SEGMENTS max.
Told her 5 flights = 4 connections - was she sure? Checked again and says yes.
So get it to 4 SEGMENTS and her latest "rule" was that YVR-SYD on Air China was 'not allowed' as it goes via Asia.
I told her it was purely transit, the UA website offered it both ways with no issues, and frankly I'd prefer to be on the AC direct, as 10 hours less flying one way, but there were no seats on AC.
Before I waste any more time on this, does anyone know for SURE if there is a cap on transfers/segments in each direction for Star partners?
Glen
Last edited by ozstamps; Oct 9, 2013 at 6:51 am Reason: Typo gap for cap on last par
Sep 9, 2013, 11:00 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I have heard some institutional wisdom that a round-trip US to Asia via Europe allows 5 segments in each direction; while a one-way US to Asia via Europe allows 4 segments (and of course just goes in one direction). Where "allows" means "will autoprice without needing to involve someone at the rate desk who will make up crazy rules why a flight isn't pricing".
No idea what the story is on US-Australia via Asia (or whatever).
I had no idea that that AC operated SYD-YVR, wow!
No idea what the story is on US-Australia via Asia (or whatever).
I had no idea that that AC operated SYD-YVR, wow!
Sep 9, 2013, 11:01 am
#3
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Someone else might be able to comment on YVR-SYD via Asia (which seems fine to me), but I'd highly recommend HUACA as your strategy here. It took me four calls, but I finally got an agent who booked me according to the rules, and not according to whatever he or she decided to make up or interpret incorrectly. For US->SE Asia via Europe, the new rule is 4 connections on a roundtrip award, which is 5 segments. I'm not sure if this also applies to Australia over the Pacific, but it sure sounds like the kind of things someone would make up and tell you.
Sep 9, 2013, 11:09 am
#4
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enki ... I will call back, as long as collectible wisdom here is First agent was probably a Klutz.
Already wasted 90 mins on this so better to ask around.
Saying via Asia costs more when website does not, seemed like total BS to me too.
Yes AC have flown YVR-SYD for a few years now - 777ER .. 15˝ hours.
Glen
Already wasted 90 mins on this so better to ask around.
Saying via Asia costs more when website does not, seemed like total BS to me too.
Yes AC have flown YVR-SYD for a few years now - 777ER .. 15˝ hours.
Glen
Sep 9, 2013, 4:13 pm
#5
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There are reports of agents mentioning memos with these new segment limitation rules. So it's not just that many-segment itins won't auto-price. The problems (as usual with UA) are that (1) agents get the rules before they are posted publicly anywhere (like, duh, the website), and (2) agents forget, misremember, don't get the memo but operate on local rumor, whatever. Put those two together and it's a recipe for extreme frustration (because you can't just point the agent to the chapter and verse on the website), or at the very least, multiple episodes of HUACA before you get what you want.
One thing that seems to have helped some people is to book as much as you can online, then call within 24 hr to add the problematic segments. For some reason this seems to work better than trying to construct a whole complicated itin from scratch with an agent. And if you can't add what you want, just exercise the 24 hr cancellation with no fee rule.
One thing that seems to have helped some people is to book as much as you can online, then call within 24 hr to add the problematic segments. For some reason this seems to work better than trying to construct a whole complicated itin from scratch with an agent. And if you can't add what you want, just exercise the 24 hr cancellation with no fee rule.
Sep 9, 2013, 4:56 pm
#6
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Here's an excerpt from a post I just made in the "Maximum segments on UA award travel" thread. May be helpful to some people here:
I heard today from two different phone reps (one a support desk supervisor and one a phone agent, spearate calls) that effective April 25, United has new routing restrictions on award tickets going from the US to Asia over the Atlantic.
One agent read the memo to me and it said something like "Effective immediately, we are restricting connections permitted on award travel from the US to Asia/Japan over the Atlantic. Maximum connections on a one way ticket is three. Maximum connections on a round trip is four each way."
Note that the word connection is used, not segments.
After the first rep (a rate desk supervisor) had told me about this memo, I called in with a dummy booking SIN-FRA-IST-EWR-LAS and an agent priced it out at 60,000 miles in J. 3 connections (4 segments) on a one way, so it's valid routing.
I called back to add BKK to the beginning of the itinerary, which would make it BKK-SIN-FRA-IST-EWR-LAS. It would not price. That's 4 connections (5 segments) on a one way, invalid routing. That's when the next agent said "Oh, we have a new rule on this" and she read the April 25 memo to me.
Anyway, I know that agents often say a lot of nonsensical things, but two different reps on two different calls cited the "April 25" memo to me, one of them read it to me, and it seems verified by the computer's rejection of BKK-SIN-IST-FRA-EWR-LAS. The "system" now only allows 3 connections (4 segments) on a one way from US to Asia, or 4 connections (5 segments) on each leg of a round trip between U.S. and Asia.
I heard today from two different phone reps (one a support desk supervisor and one a phone agent, spearate calls) that effective April 25, United has new routing restrictions on award tickets going from the US to Asia over the Atlantic.
One agent read the memo to me and it said something like "Effective immediately, we are restricting connections permitted on award travel from the US to Asia/Japan over the Atlantic. Maximum connections on a one way ticket is three. Maximum connections on a round trip is four each way."
Note that the word connection is used, not segments.
After the first rep (a rate desk supervisor) had told me about this memo, I called in with a dummy booking SIN-FRA-IST-EWR-LAS and an agent priced it out at 60,000 miles in J. 3 connections (4 segments) on a one way, so it's valid routing.
I called back to add BKK to the beginning of the itinerary, which would make it BKK-SIN-FRA-IST-EWR-LAS. It would not price. That's 4 connections (5 segments) on a one way, invalid routing. That's when the next agent said "Oh, we have a new rule on this" and she read the April 25 memo to me.
Anyway, I know that agents often say a lot of nonsensical things, but two different reps on two different calls cited the "April 25" memo to me, one of them read it to me, and it seems verified by the computer's rejection of BKK-SIN-IST-FRA-EWR-LAS. The "system" now only allows 3 connections (4 segments) on a one way from US to Asia, or 4 connections (5 segments) on each leg of a round trip between U.S. and Asia.
Sep 10, 2013, 12:43 am
#7
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Anything with UA involves guesswork, frustration, and us often knowing more than agents, but it does seem like, from posts above the new rules re 4 transfers max on a round trip has also been extended to USA-Australia awards and not just to USA/Asia.
Any other data points folks can add?
In days of old I'd book things that were close enough then phone and change days on same route when inventory in "I" opened up but I think even a date change or even class of service incurs fees now? I.e. booking coach now on a star partner and hoping "I" pens up on same day.
Any other data points folks can add?
In days of old I'd book things that were close enough then phone and change days on same route when inventory in "I" opened up but I think even a date change or even class of service incurs fees now? I.e. booking coach now on a star partner and hoping "I" pens up on same day.
Sep 10, 2013, 12:55 am
#8
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Anything with UA involves guesswork, frustration, and us often knowing more than agents, but it does seem like, from posts above the new rules re 4 transfers max on a round trip has also been extended to USA-Australia awards and not just to USA/Asia.
Any other data points folks can add?
In days of old I'd book things that were close enough then phone and change days on same route when inventory in "I" opened up but I think even a date change or even class of service incurs fees now? I.e. booking coach now on a star partner and hoping "I" pens up on same day.
Any other data points folks can add?
In days of old I'd book things that were close enough then phone and change days on same route when inventory in "I" opened up but I think even a date change or even class of service incurs fees now? I.e. booking coach now on a star partner and hoping "I" pens up on same day.
Sep 10, 2013, 2:57 am
#10
Join Date: Jul 2010
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I think you got an agent who is interpreting the new rules to SE Asia (see WineCountry's post) incorrectly. I would try again.
I currently have an award booked to SYD next year with four legs going over and three coming back; trick is, I haven't added the positioning flights to YYT on either end yet (currently the itin begins at JFK and ends at ORD). The logistics of living in Newfoundland mean I'm going to end up with five segments minimum in each direction; possibly six just because of how the return flight I'm looking at routes (ORD-YHZ-YYT) and the fact that I have to connect through Toronto to get to JFK on the outbound.
Let me know what you find; I suspect most agents haven't tried to route people in and out of YYT and don't have much of an appreciation of how difficult it can be without inadvertently adding a stopover.
I currently have an award booked to SYD next year with four legs going over and three coming back; trick is, I haven't added the positioning flights to YYT on either end yet (currently the itin begins at JFK and ends at ORD). The logistics of living in Newfoundland mean I'm going to end up with five segments minimum in each direction; possibly six just because of how the return flight I'm looking at routes (ORD-YHZ-YYT) and the fact that I have to connect through Toronto to get to JFK on the outbound.
Let me know what you find; I suspect most agents haven't tried to route people in and out of YYT and don't have much of an appreciation of how difficult it can be without inadvertently adding a stopover.
Sep 10, 2013, 3:25 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I know the official "Rules" seem to be hidden but just spent 90 mins booking SYD-YYT (Newfoundland) on Air Canada.
Not having basic rules published wastes everyone's time.
Should be simple. I'd sussed out dates that had "I" inventory on them all, and phoned it in.
After a long time on hold agent advised only max 4 CONNECTIONS each way are allowed.
Simple fix. Took out 2.
She tries it again after a long hold and then tells me 4 SEGMENTS max.
Told her 5 flights = 4 connections - was she sure? Checked again and says yes.
So get it to 4 SEGMENTS and her latest "rule" was that YVR-SYD on Air China was 'not allowed' as it goes via Asia.
I told her it was purely transit, the UA website offered it both ways with no issues, and frankly I'd prefer to be on the AC direct, as 10 hours less flying one way, but there were no seats on AC.
Before I waste any more time on this, does anyone know for SURE if there is a gap on transfers/segments in each direction for Star partners?
Glen
Not having basic rules published wastes everyone's time.
Should be simple. I'd sussed out dates that had "I" inventory on them all, and phoned it in.
After a long time on hold agent advised only max 4 CONNECTIONS each way are allowed.
Simple fix. Took out 2.
She tries it again after a long hold and then tells me 4 SEGMENTS max.
Told her 5 flights = 4 connections - was she sure? Checked again and says yes.
So get it to 4 SEGMENTS and her latest "rule" was that YVR-SYD on Air China was 'not allowed' as it goes via Asia.
I told her it was purely transit, the UA website offered it both ways with no issues, and frankly I'd prefer to be on the AC direct, as 10 hours less flying one way, but there were no seats on AC.
Before I waste any more time on this, does anyone know for SURE if there is a gap on transfers/segments in each direction for Star partners?
Glen
Since the merger I have gotten many ill-trained or uninformed reservations agents who cannot book complicated international reservations properly. I am guessing they are pmCO and just not experienced with this. Layering on the subsequent rules and systems changes has overwhelmed them. (I say this as a pmCO platinum who experienced great service when they were handling CO reservations.)
To save my time and United's resources, I now rely more than ever on one basic strategy- HUACA!
Sep 10, 2013, 5:00 am
#12
Join Date: Jul 2010
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One more thing: the notion that you cannot route to Australia via Asia on a MileagePlus award is flat wrong. My SYD itinerary goes through BKK in both directions, ICN in one, and NRT in the other (with a stopover in HKG on the way). That is definitely a HUACA issue.
Sep 10, 2013, 10:01 am
#13
Join Date: Aug 2005
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In days of old I'd book things that were close enough then phone and change days on same route when inventory in "I" opened up but I think even a date change or even class of service incurs fees now? I.e. booking coach now on a star partner and hoping "I" pens up on same day.
Sep 10, 2013, 12:25 pm
#14
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For Gold and below, changes < 21 days incur fees. Most other changes (made >21 days out), including changing the dates and routing, do not incur fees as long as the origin/destination remain the same - but this assumes you have some status. If you're a GM, there's always a fee.
As our Newfoundland member above points out, getting from there to SYD on 5 legs on award flights, is near impossible!
I am going to call back on this, armed with the good FT advice above.
My issue is the YVR-PVG-SYD that showed 2 x "I" yesterday, now shows only "I" on AC to Shanghai and coach on Air China - on UA website anyway.
Expert Flyer tells me this - there are 2 x "I" seats there now - but UA website will not allow me to grab them.
So is Expert Flyer wrong or UA website .. does anyone have access to one of the other flight booking sites, like KVS and can confirm? Expert Flyer under flights certainly shows 2 x "I".
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This is a notification that your Flight Alert "ca1" has located at least 2 availability opening(s) at this time.
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For: CA175/Business - Award & Upgrade (I)
From: PVG to SYD
Date: 07/17/14 7:35 PM