I had quite an interesting night yesterday, in Shanghai, while traveling on an United itinerary. Hoping to get some thoughts from everyone on FT. Happy holidays and huge thanks in advance!
So, I booked a route thru UA from PEK to LAX, with a connection at PVG. The first leg was operated by Air China and the second was Global First on United. The layover was supposed to be 3 hours, so I figured that was plenty of time.
After the first leg was delayed about 1.5 hours before takeoff, I called United at PEK to ensure that I was checked in for both legs, and the UA reps assured me that I'd be fine and that all I had to do was to pick up my boarding pass at PVG. They insisted that I should get on the Air China flight at Beijing even with the delay, that I'd have enough time to make the connection (even if I arrive within an hour of the second flight). Despite the reassurance, I researched meticulously the Shanghai terminal during the first leg, readying my quick run through the transfer. The Air China flight ended up an additional hour late, so I was left with ~30 min to make the transfer.
But, when I got to Shanghai (at about 8p, for the 8:30p flight), all check-in agents had already left. The person at the ticketing desk was MIA, and an Emirates staff at a nearby counter tried to find her, with no success. Tried the Air China desks, but no one was there anymore either. Meanwhile, the United flight took off (15-20 minutes late, so I could have made it, if it weren't for the absenteeism of United agents). Panic set in.
Left with no one to issue my boarding pass or to rebook the flight, I called UA customer service. No help. After talking to two reps, both insisted that it was Air China's fault and refused to help (I calmly informed them that no one was left at the airport, and asked if they can touch base with Air China -- nope).
$60 in cell roaming charges later, the result? The first rep hung up on me and the second reluctantly rebooked the flight for the following night. No attempt to help me reach Air China or help find a hotel for that night. Long story short, I was stranded in Shanghai, with no local United or Air China reps to talk to, no where to stay for the night.
Finally, I went to the last airline with anyone at the check-in counters (AA) and bought a last-minute F ticket home (trying to talk the Chinese AA agent on how to use a certificate number to issue a ticket was a whole other adventure). Got escorted thru security and made the AA flight JUST before the gate closed (phew!).
Once I got back to the States, I cancelled the United leg online, and am now hoping to get my 70K miles back.
Has anyone been in such a situation? Am I justified in trying to get the United ticket refunded without penalties or fees, even if the first domestic connecting leg was used? Does United actually have no contractual obligation (as a phone rep assured me) to assist me even though they marketed and sold the route? Just trying to figure out how hard to push this when I call for the refund.
Thanks in advance for any advice (and sorry for the long-winded post/flagrant abuse of parentheticals). Happy festivus!
Was it the last flight out and you missed the cutoff time? If yes, then they are under no obligation as I would guess that you well under minimum connection time.
What was the reason for delay?
If they were nice about it they will refund half your miles. I would ask for a refund in the more you spent on the other ticket. Someone should have been there, they know you were coming and they should,have provided you hotel,Etc. for them to do this for Christmas is not customer friendly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandeapart
Does United actually have no contractual obligation (as a phone rep assured me) to assist me even though they marketed and sold the route? Just trying to figure out how hard to push this when I call for the refund.
Presuming this was all booked on the one ticket (which it seems it was), then it's the responsibility of the airline that caused the mis-connect to look after rebooking. In this case that would be Air China, who could have either put you on the UA flight the next day, or any other flight(s) to your destination at their discretion.
That said, it's not uncommon for the next airline to handle it for you, especially if they are the ones that issued the ticket (as they were here) - but normally this would be done at the airport. Making changes like this over the phone, especially for flights from a foreign airport, can have consequences with respect to Visas/etc which are normally best handled by local staff who know the rules, and are able to verify your legal status in the country and what implications later flights might have on that.
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Since check-in closes an hour prior to departure, once you missed checking in, your seat was lost and the agents leave check-in if last flight of the day. (you did not have a BP?)
When a carrier delivers you late to a connection regardless of who sold you the ticket or who operates the next flight, the late arriving carrier is responsible to correct the the issue (IATA rules).
UA may refund the PVG-LAX extra mileage but not sure the justification for asking UA to cover for Air China issues?
Thanks for the replies! Couldn't find (and I tried hard) any United agents pre-security. Found an Air China staff (on her way out), who gave me the number to United (800United1, lol) telling me that it's UA's problem as they booked the ticket (and she admitted that she doesn't even know how to start handling a situation like that). My limited Chinese, probably didn't help with the situation either!
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Yes unfortunately while it was a UA ticket since CA caused the misconnect it's their problem. You might try their reservations office here in the states and get them talking with UA. I've had mixed intineraries with UA and CA before and due to a delayed flight in SFO would have missed my connection in PEK, but had very good UA CS people in SFO who got on the phone with CA's counter and figured things out for me.
One suggestion if you find yourself flying this routing again is since UA doesn't fly PEK-LAX try CA's non-stop on the 773ER. These are brand new aircraft and despite CA's poor reputation in the past, these flights now have great service in all classes that is very comprable to UA if not better in some respects, IMHO.
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I understand the rules, but common sense (my version of common sense) would say that whomever sold the ticket has the responsibility to take care of the back end when things go wrong. The ticket says United on it, it was purchased (whether award miles or cash isn't relevant) from United. I think it's entirely understandable that a confused traveler would first go to the ticketing agency or airline, and I think the airlines profit from this misunderstanding because, by the time the passenger figures things out, the passenger has likely already personally paid for expenses that the airline likely has rules saying cannot be repaid because they weren't authorized ahead of time.
There may be very good reasons for having everything problem-related go through the airline that caused the problem. But I would suggest having the ticketing airline responsible would improve accountability all-around.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky
... There may be very good reasons for having everything problem-related go through the airline that caused the problem. ...
yes there are and it is the IATA rule also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky
... But I would suggest having the ticketing airline responsible would improve accountability all-around.
so airline A creates a problem but airline B needs to fix it. I guess you are suggesting B then charges A for the costs? -- that should be fun to watch. Airline B has no incentive to minimize costs, airline A is not going to readily accept the outcome.
Another situation Airline A is going to be x hours late but all marketing airlines with passengers on that flight need to hold their people late to cover the disembarking passengers.???
There are United counters at PEK, but they said they couldn't print them, and I had to do so in Shanghai. I even tried (while sitting on the CA flight stuck on the runway) to do it thru the United app, which said I was checked in but emailed a blank PDF saying I had to pick up my BP at an UA desk upon passport verification.
The frustrating thing was that there were no UA desks post-security within the domestic terminal at PEK, and the CA agents wouldn't touch my itinerary without UA (they wouldn't even call UA). I was told that my best bet was to exit the secured area to find an UA agent. But, as I was told to stay around my gate to wait for boarding, I didn't want to risk missing my current flight by chancing reentrance thru security.
@WineCountryUSA
You are right, but unlike my experiences with other airlines in my domestic travels, CA agents at PEK appeared (at least in my experience) much less proactive in figuring out a situation out of what they are used to dealing with).
For example, something similar happened to me on a codeshare between Alaskan and AA, and the Alaskan agent, after calling a few places managed to get me on a direct non-alliance (UA) flight. I asked multiple CA agents at PEK to get me on the direct flight that night from PEK direct to LAX, which they promptly either refused or said it was not in their control.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Dec 24, 12 at 11:15 pm..
Reason: merge
1. UA has a ticket counter at PVG! It is facing the front entrace in the middle of the hall, several rows away from CA's check-in counters. I knew it since I used the couter for some ticket issues between UA and CA last year.
2. OP should have had a BP issued by CA in PEK, then he/she did not need to use the UA check-in counter at PVG. In the worst case, as other suggested, he/she should have got a BP from UA counter at PEK, which I had done it before too.
3. UA flight left during the day or maybe later in the day. I could not imagine that CA counters were closed. OP seemed should be able to talked to CA station manager at the time.
PVG is somewhat weird in that international luggage cannot be tagged to the final destination from another domestic airport or vice versa. In this case, OP had to pickup the luggage and re-checked at PVG. The OP did not need to use the UA counter at PVG unless he/she had checked luggage.
On a side note, if they knew that the 1st flight was or would be delayed, did they offer to put you on an earlier flight free of charge? There should be frequent flights between PEK and PVG that operated by CA.
It happened to me twice that they offered to put us on ealier flights for a subsequenct internatinal flight due to delayed inbound aircraft. In one incident, the ealier flight was about to depature in 20 minutes, and we made it. One of the counter person even dragged my luggage to a special location so that it could be screened and be loaded to the plane. I guessed that my UA status helped the situation. Does the OP has any status with *A?
1. UA has a ticket counter at PVG! It is facing the front entrace in the middle of the hall, several rows away from CA's check-in counters. I knew it since I used the couter for some ticket issues between UA and CA last year.
--Yup! Checked at that UA desk, which according to the Emirates staff (which shares the space) should have been staffed, but they couldn't locate the person.
2. OP should have had a BP issued by CA in PEK, then he/she did not need to use the UA check-in counter at PVG. In the worst case, as other suggested, he/she should have got a BP from UA counter at PEK, which I had done it before too.
--I first went, at PEK, to CA to check in and asked if I could get my second BP (they said they could see the connecting flight in their system but I had to asked at the UA desk). I then went to the UA desk (checkin and ticketing), and they said no. I didn't however ask then if they could rebook me at UA ticketing or CA checkin, as the CA flight's schedule change didn't occur until some time after I entered the secured area.
3. UA flight left during the day or maybe later in the day. I could not imagine that CA counters were closed. OP seemed should be able to talked to CA station manager at the time.
--The PVG-LAX flight was presumably the last UA flight that day (around 8:30pm)
1) 3 hours is not long enough for a connection in China - the ANSP is not able to offer the level of reliability necessary to support western norm connections. I personally have a 4 hour minimum and for infrequent or inexperienced international travelers I recommend 6.
2) In the case of a misconnect the late delivering airline is responsible for you, not the next airline or the ticketing airline.
1) 3 hours is not long enough for a connection in China - the ANSP is not able to offer the level of reliability necessary to support western norm connections. I personally have a 4 hour minimum and for infrequent or inexperienced international travelers I recommend 6.
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I agree due to my 2 previous incidents and another near miss at PEK (was the last person boarded onto an IAD-bound flight).
