United.com [intentionally?] misleading about what a "flexible fare" is:
I went to buy a ticket online today-- it was ORD-TLV-ORD in P class. The price was $2,993.97. In the fare rules for that P fare, PNC5NS, appears the following text:
Quote:
CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE
. . .
CHANGES ANY TIME CHARGE USD 400.00
So far so good-- a cheap fare that is non-refundable and carries a stiff change fee.
There was a box below the price that said "Flexible Fare for $1,243.00 more". I clicked on that, and a Z fare popps up for $4,236.97. In the rules for that Z fare, of that fare, ZRC28E, appears the following text:
Quote:
CANCELLATIONS BEFORE DEPARTURE CHARGE USD 500.00
. . .
CHANGES ANY TIME CHARGE USD 400.00
It is true that below the "Flexible Fare for $1,243.00 more" it said "Lowest refundable fare . . . Change fees and cancellation fees may apply", but I still consider this grossly misleading. To me, there is no such thing as a "flexible fare" to which "change fees and cancellation fees may apply"-- to me, a "flexible fare" means fully changeable/refundable. Am I alone in this? I consider this grossly misleading.
Perhaps if it said "More Flexible Fare for . . . more" it would be acceptable.
I think this is sufficiently misleading that the DOT should look at it. What say all of you?
Programs: UA 1K MM, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Silver, Hilton Silver
Posts: 19,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
I suppose that this fare is still refundable for a no-show, so it is slightly more flexible in that way. But I find it misleading still.
When the options are
Unrestricted and Flexible, it would seem obvious (to me) the Flexible has some restrictions.
Additionally the Flexible Fare selection - states some cancellation and change fees.
What were you expecting? What is misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
...
It is true that below the "Flexible Fare for $1,243.00 more" it said "Lowest refundable fare . . . Change fees and cancellation fees may apply", but I still consider this grossly misleading. To me, there is no such thing as a "flexible fare" to which "change fees and cancellation fees may apply"-- to me, a "flexible fare" means fully changeable/refundable. Am I alone in this? I consider this grossly misleading. ...
not when a Unrestricted Option exists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
...I think this is sufficiently misleading that the DOT should look at it. What say all of you?
no -- the option is clear if you read the wording.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 23, 12 at 2:29 pm..
Reason: typo
Programs: UA 1K MM, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Silver, Hilton Silver
Posts: 19,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
By your definition, any fare that allows any changes is flexible. ...
no the key item of the flexible fare level is refundablity (although there is a fee).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
.. If there was an "unrestricted fare" option next to it, that would be different. But there isn't. ...
When I see these options there is always but options, it could be in certain cases one or the other isn't available, but IME the norm is both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
... They should call it "Refundable Fare" if that's what they mean.
I could live with that but others would claim that is misleading due to the cancellation fee.
Doubt there is one term the every could be happy (hence the right move to provide the explanatory details)
The real issue, is it misleading when the conditions are spelled out in plain terms, IMO no.
They should call it "Refundable Fare" if that's what they mean.
They should come up with a word that means "cheapest available fare which allows a cash refund, possibly requiring the payment of some refund fee, if you choose to cancel this trip or even if you fail to cancel it before departure time".
I think "refundable" is a bit too technical (hard to tell how that's different from "fully refundable"!). And "flexible" is clearly not quite right because people equate it with something like "fully refundable".
There must be some demand for this product else why would they offer it! (Corporate travel departments who do want to buy directly from UA but don't want to have to keep accounting of cancelled PNRs and the associated credit?). Maybe they should ask those customers for whom this product is valuable what they call it. The word "flexible" is a bit weird here!
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I find the term at the least confusing. I wouldn't consider a ticket that charged $500 to cancel really refundable. It is worse because on domestic tickets "flexible" tickets seem to be almost always completely refundable. I generally see the only difference on domestics being that unrestricted can always move to any other flight that isn't sold out because it books into the master class Y or F. I think forcing detailed readings of fare rules isn't the best solution for the average booker who probably has a simpler model in his head - can I cancel or not. In this regard you can cancel most tickets for the cost of the change fee so refundable with fee is a fairly odd concept anyway.
They were very clear what the fees were. They could call it whatever they wanted. I don't see the issue at all.
Um, "very clear" may be subject to interpretation.
To see the full rules of a fare you're about to buy, you need to know to click the "fare rules" button on the second-to-last screen before purchase then fill out a CAPTCHA.
To see the full fare rules of a fare you've already bought, well, what did you do that for?! Hope you saved the rules at time of purchase.
Quote:
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“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
Well, seeing how the OP quoted the fare rules, I'm going to assume they were able to find them, and that they were not hidden.
Are we perhaps being just a tad harsh to the OP? I can find the fare rules too, but that doesn't mean they're easy to locate or decipherable once found. And I consider myself a fairly-fluent-in-airline-fine-print FTer.
I think the OP has a good point, and I've wondered more than once how many poor souls purchase a "flexible" fare without realizing that the ticket is not, in fact, what they were looking for.
What they could do instead is publish a much more straightforward matrix, with type of change along the top and different types of ticket along the left (with prices). Then, in each cell, it would show how much they charge for that particular change for that particular ticket. It would look something like the current United Club pricing matrix or the reduced change fee portion of the "premier benefits" spreadsheet. I, for one, would give this sort of a change a big
__________________ 2012 airports: AUS BOS BTV CLE DEN DTW EWR GNV IAD IAH MCO MHT MKE MSN MUC ORD PHX PIT PNS SFO SAN SAT TPA ZRH
Programs: UA 1K MM, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Silver, Hilton Silver
Posts: 19,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by o mikros
...
I think the OP has a good point, and I've wondered more than once how many poor souls purchase a "flexible" fare without realizing that the ticket is not, in fact, what they were looking for....
But even the OP acknowledges that at the point of offering the Flexible alternative it clearly states there is a fee for changes / cancellation. You don't need the fare rules to learn that (the fare rules provides the fee amount, but the existence of the fee is very clearly stated up forward). What is it purchasers are not realizing??
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Posts: 598
I have also thought that the system isn't as transparent as it should be. You have to be pretty savvy to find the change fees and refund fees.
I think these two fees should be displayed clearly and simply on the fare page, without having to dig thru pages of fare rules. This would also be faster as getting the fare rules requires inputting a code each time.
Perhaps it is a separate topic but there are a lot more $10,000 international C and D fares now with $400/$500 fees. A few years ago, whenever I bought a $6-$10,000 C or D fare it was always fully flexible and refundable. Now, that level of flexibility costs $1000 extra or more. (Though it might still be a C or D fare!).
1. It's not misleading at all. It's just complicated. Perhaps the best solution is not to try to use terms such as "flexible" and the like and to simply always refer the pax to the fare rules. But, there would then be all the complaints about how complex things are.
2. There are basically four types of fares:
#1 - Unrestricted in any way shape or form. You can cancel and receive a full refund to the original form of payment and by extension, use the full amount of a ticket in a change.
#2 - Unrestricted but penalties apply for refund/changes.
#3 - Refunds only as a credit against future travel.
#4 - Fully restricted. Fly the route as ticketed or lose full value.
3. If people want simple, the solution is to go to a two-tier system. Either the ticket is a #1 or a #4. But, consumers don't like that.
United.com [intentionally?] misleading about what a "flexible fare" is:
