Here are my thoughts on what could happen:
1. UA pars down its EWR / LHR frequency as it cant really compete, to compete on other routes.
2. LH moves some of its LHR slots to UA as part of their JV.
3. UA starts JFK / LHR operations (using some of its PS slots) to make up the capacity.
3. UA starts JFK / LHR operations (using some of its PS slots) to make up the capacity.
Thoughts?
You mean UA re-starts LHR-JFK? I don't see what the logic there is. Why pare down EWR (where you've got scale, feeders, etc) to go head to head in JFK where you definitely cannot compete?
UA's strength to the UK is not just its London routes but the point to point services to other UK & Ireland destinations like MAN BHX EDI GLA BFS DUB SNN as well as all the European cities.
VS does have excellent on board product and a great reputation. So far they have not been part of any global alliance but their venture with DL could lead them to be part of Sky Team which is the weakest in my view of the 3 major groups.
UA would love to have more LHR slots and I'm sure they are planning to find them though it would be at a very high price.
It's the global picture that matters most to UA and their joint venture with LH certainly helps them.
The DL release states that they will have 31 flights daily between North America and Brittain. Is that 31 RT's a day or is it 31 departures from North America and also 31 departures from Brittain?
How many flights does UA have daily to LHR? what about the total UK?
I wonder whether this move (DL buying SQ's 49% stake in VS) was something UA expected when they ended their partnership post-merger.
That severed business relationship was kind of a bummer — I had sort of wanted to take a VS flight with UA miles (and even had a couple booked with CO miles) and thought that earning EQM for a VS flight was sort of a neat idea.
How many flights does UA have daily to LHR? what about the total UK?
A quick check for Jan shows 5 daily EWR-LHR and then 1 each EWR to BFS, BHX, MAN, EDI, GLA, so a total of 10. Plus it's into EWR not JFK and so may be missed by many tourists searching for flights. It has always surprised me how poorly served New York-London is by United compared to almost any of the other US or UK carriers, especially as its a premium traveller heavy route.
I have to play all sorts of games to get my company to route me to London on United as we have a lowest fare requirement in our booking engine.
UA would love to have more LHR slots and I'm sure they are planning to find them though it would be at a very high price.
I'm not so sure. UA has plenty of lift into LHR now, especially from EWR; remember UA had plenty of slots, it was CO that was desperately in need. Until they're flying the EWR-LHR flights with higher capacity aircraft (e.g. 763/764/777) rather than the 757s that plying the route now... they don't seem to be capacity limited. The last thing UA wants to do is invest in slots to run 15 half-empty, heavily discounted flights a day.
The NY Area-London market is primarily O/D, but UA has strength in connections, which are certainly less sensitive to having 20 flights a day like AA/BA. UA certainly isn't competing with the ground product of the likes of BA and VS, which offer substantially better lounge products. UA is sufficiently good in the air, the beds make all the difference and they needed them to compete against BA and VS.
There isn't sufficient competition or demand in the rest of the UA hub networks (Except ORD) that would warrant additional flights to Heathrow.
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[quote=alex_b;19838118]A quick check for Jan shows 5 daily EWR-LHR and then 1 each EWR to BFS, BHX, MAN, EDI, GLA, so a total of 10. [quote]
What about total UA lift from all hubs to LHR? All hubs to the UK?
The DL article is stating that VS/DL claim 31 flghts from "all of North America" to "the UK." Of those, 23 flights are to LHR and of those, 10 are operated by DL.
With UA's six hubs, id think they have a decent lift to the UK and LHR specifically. Just curious to see how the numbers cocmpare.
Did ex UA fly anywhere other than Heathrow? I thought that was only CO.
Right now the best business travel route to the UK from the east cost is via Frankfurt to city airport. More time to sleep and you still arrive in time for meetings provided you schedule them right.
Did ex UA fly anywhere other than Heathrow? I thought that was only CO.
Right now the best business travel route to the UK from the east cost is via Frankfurt to city airport. More time to sleep and you still arrive in time for meetings provided you schedule them right.
1. It was CO that flew to regional airports, not UA.
2. It's even better to fly straight from NYC to LCY on BA's non-stop if you are heading to the City or Canary Wharf. For the West End you might as well stick with LHR.
As I understand it, VS and Delta have 31 daily departures vs 16 for UA (the numbers vary slightly between winter and summer). The bulk of VS departures are on larger planes than the bulk of UA's
