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Interesting Pilot Announcement "Be Thankful You're on a Mainline Aircraft"
Forgot to post this the day it happened but thought it was interesting nonetheless. No point to the story other than to share as an FYI.
Was flying ORD - CLE on the horrific fog day (Wednesday, 21 November). Our flight pushed back on time while others were canceled/delayed around us (flying an A320).
As we went to taxi the pilot came on and in the course of his normal introductions mentioned "you are all thankful that we have a mainline aircraft and can handle this fog with no problems, we are currently number two for departure".
Hadn't heard that tacit acknowledgement before but thought it was interesting for him to state. The planes/pilot knowledge is one reason why I favor mainline when possible. Mainline is much better at bad weather than non-mainline and it was interesting to hear him mention it.
From an operations perspective, when there are airport capacity controls due to weather (ie WX conditions reducing the arrival and departure rate per hour), mainline flights take priority over express flights.
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From an operations perspective, when there are airport capacity controls due to weather (ie WX conditions reducing the arrival and departure rate per hour), mainline flights take priority over express flights.
Hmm, I wonder whether a completely full Q400 (74 pax) would still be prioritized below a very lightly loaded mainline flight, say a 50-pax 757 operating ORD-DTW. (Are there Q400s out of ORD?)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mherdeg
Hmm, I wonder whether a completely full Q400 (74 pax) would still be prioritized below a very lightly loaded mainline flight, say a 50-pax 757 operating ORD-DTW. (Are there Q400s out of ORD?)
No more Q's. They were here and then they were gone.. ATC here hates them!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warreng24
From an operations perspective, when there are airport capacity controls due to weather (ie WX conditions reducing the arrival and departure rate per hour), mainline flights take priority over express flights.
There are also different categories of ILS landings in poor visibility.
Generally speaking, the mainline carriers have the highest category certification (CAT III), and the regionals have one of the lower categories (usually CAT II), which restricts regionals' ability to land in fog/poor visibility conditions.
So if your destination is expected to be fogged in, you're much better off on a mainline flight, as the pilot said.
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I was on a Skywest as United flight last week (during a bit of snow) when the pilot came on and said that the plane has older software installed that does not allow them to take off or land in snow or harsh weather. Delayed hours while flights around us were leaving without issue. Seemed an interesting admission...
There are also different categories of ILS landings in poor visibility.
Generally speaking, the mainline carriers have the highest category certification (CAT III), and the regionals have one of the lower categories (usually CAT II), which restricts regionals' ability to land in fog/poor visibility conditions.
So if your destination is expected to be fogged in, you're much better off on a mainline flight, as the pilot said.
I was under the impression must (if not all) the UAX carriers were both crew/aircraft certified for CAT I only. UA mainline aircraft can land in pretty much any visibility (with required ground equipment) at most large airports. Thing of beauty to hit the ground and barely see the runway out the window After a very low vis landing into SFO the captain made his way back into the cabin during deplaning. I asked if that was an autoland and his response was "you better believe it. technology is a wonderful thing".
I came into ROC once in heavy fog on the old Colgan Commut Air Beech 1900 - the pilots left the terrorist containment curtain ( ) open so I watched them approach on ILS (I think)
Basically, a bogey in a 2 cmx2cm box on a LCD screen....I would have much better off if I hadnt seen that..
Last edited by LaserSailor; Nov 25, 12 at 5:01 pm..
Reason: wrong bogey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mherdeg
Hmm, I wonder whether a completely full Q400 (74 pax) would still be prioritized below a very lightly loaded mainline flight, say a 50-pax 757 operating ORD-DTW. (Are there Q400s out of ORD?)
Depends. It's not just the current flights that matter, but also where that plane needs to be in the future. That 757 could have a full load of passengers for its next segment waiting for it at the next airport, or a bunch of connecting paassengers, while that Q400 may be overnighting at an outstation with no connecting passengers.
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If you looked at the monitors that Wednesday, you would have seen a complete disaster for UAX flights and not much out of the ordinary with mainline. The pilot may have a point.
I was under the impression must (if not all) the UAX carriers were both crew/aircraft certified for CAT I only. UA mainline aircraft can land in pretty much any visibility (with required ground equipment) at most large airports. Thing of beauty to hit the ground and barely see the runway out the window After a very low vis landing into SFO the captain made his way back into the cabin during deplaning. I asked if that was an autoland and his response was "you better believe it. technology is a wonderful thing".
I think that's correct. Most regional jets only have one autopilot onboard and no autothrottles if I recall. They could train and do a monitored Cat II approach with no autoland. But that training costs money, so not sure if the UAX carriers do it or not.
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In DSM ---UAX flights have replaced most mainliine flights---so maybe 2 mainline per day ....and when it snowed last year in ORD/DSM(luckily not often).....almost all UAX flights seemed to be canceled ---leaving a very difficult predicament for all the passengers. If we have a normal winter this time round ----it will be interesting to see what happens!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warreng24
From an operations perspective, when there are airport capacity controls due to weather (ie WX conditions reducing the arrival and departure rate per hour), mainline flights take priority over express flights.
Interesting post Guys, thank you.
Do you know if the above norm is also applied in Europe?
Most regional jets only have one autopilot onboard and no autothrottles if I recall. They could train and do a monitored Cat II approach with no autoland. But that training costs money, so not sure if the UAX carriers do it or not.
AD
Horizon is cat IIIA (Possibly B?) certified, and all of their aircraft have HUDs (and they are the only airline that I know of certified to do a CAT III approach with an engine out.) Of course, they are the exception since AS owns them, and, unlike other wholly-owned operations, AS actually cares about them, and is willing to pour the needed amount of money into them to accomplish their goals.
My airline has some of those particular Horizon planes, but cannot do the CAT IIIa approaches, nor use the HUDs, because we do not have the FAA approval to do so; however, we ARE cat II.
That said, there are still a few regionals out there who are still wholly cat I, be it because of the equipment on the airplane, or because the majority (read: all but the hub) of airports they service are only cat I.
In regards to the OP, though, here's a simple reasoning:
This is a issue of cash flow. When you're forced to live on a limited budget, you're going to a find a happy medium that fits most, but maybe not all, of what you'd like to accomplish, and still manage to make something that resembles a profit, and in this particular case, getting CAT III certification for a once-a-year event such as this might pay for itself during that one event, but it could certainly cost you your job if it causes you to be too expensive during that next round of negotiations.
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After a very low vis landing into SFO the captain made his way back into the cabin during deplaning. I asked if that was an autoland and his response was "you better believe it. technology is a wonderful thing".
) open so I watched them approach on ILS (I think)
