Mileage Between Some City Pairs is Different After System Integration-Resolved by UA.
Mar 6, 2012, 4:27 pm
#136
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It's a known "situation/issue". Look for a thread called "mileage between some city pairs different..." (and apologies for not giving the full link but I can't figure out how to do that on my iPhone)
Mar 6, 2012, 4:38 pm
#137
Join Date: Jul 2005
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If not corrected automatically, I plan to email "Customer Care" after each of my pre-integration-booked itineraries demanding the EQM credit stated on the receipt.
This is highly obnoxious.
This is highly obnoxious.
Mar 6, 2012, 4:54 pm
#138
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I have been playing with this a little bit, I do a lot of analytics and this kind of stuff makes my brain tick. I figured the easiest would be to reference all these numbers to the GC spherical distance.
Using the GCmap suggested radius of 6371.2km:
The old distances were on average 3.5mi above GC Spherical
The new distances are on average 2.7mi below GC spherical.
However, if you were to average the polar and equatorial radius of earth (6378.1370 equitorial and 6356.7523 polar) you get a radius of 6367.4km. If you plug this into the spherical formula:
The old distances were on average 5.1mi above GC Spherical
The new distances are on average 1.1mi below GC spherical.
With rounding, 1.1 that is very believable. I was originally willing to believe there was some level of malice in there...now I am less apt to think this was more than a programmer trying to be more accurate and failing.
Using the GCmap suggested radius of 6371.2km:
The old distances were on average 3.5mi above GC Spherical
The new distances are on average 2.7mi below GC spherical.
However, if you were to average the polar and equatorial radius of earth (6378.1370 equitorial and 6356.7523 polar) you get a radius of 6367.4km. If you plug this into the spherical formula:
The old distances were on average 5.1mi above GC Spherical
The new distances are on average 1.1mi below GC spherical.
With rounding, 1.1 that is very believable. I was originally willing to believe there was some level of malice in there...now I am less apt to think this was more than a programmer trying to be more accurate and failing.
Then they just went with the less-scary-looking Haversine formula.
Throw in some rounding errors and some eagle-eyed FTers, and you've got yourself a problem.
I severely doubt this was intentional. Probably just an honest mistake that hopefully will be corrected in the future. I think the programmers are trying to figure out other, more pressing issues, like figuring out the GPU and seat assignment problems.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Mar 6, 2012 at 5:34 pm Reason: merge
Mar 6, 2012, 5:07 pm
#139
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EWR-DEN
My boarding pass for tomorrow shows 1,598 miles for EWR-DEN, down from 1604.
Mar 6, 2012, 5:51 pm
#140
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Hanlon's razor. I agree, no malice, just boredom on my (grounded) part
Mar 6, 2012, 6:17 pm
#141
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What date was your pre-merger flight and was the posting held up due to the temporary shut down of mileage posting for the system integration? Fellow f/t'er flew SFO-ORD/ORD-CDG on 3/1 with her miles getting caught up in the temporary shutdown and they posted last night with the lower milage amount
Mar 6, 2012, 7:14 pm
#142
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 721
ORD - CDG is now 4138 miles, a net loss of 15.
It's funny how familiar the distances are for the routes we fly regularly, ORD - SFO = 1846, ORD - LAX = 1745, ORD - CDG = 4153, etc., and how jarring it is to see the new numbers.
Since the new mileage numbers are almost all smaller, whatever rational explanation might exist, it's hard not to be cynical and think this isn't a ploy to shave off some RDMs and knock enough EQMs off to keep some marginal premiers from requalifying at their old level.
It's funny how familiar the distances are for the routes we fly regularly, ORD - SFO = 1846, ORD - LAX = 1745, ORD - CDG = 4153, etc., and how jarring it is to see the new numbers.
Since the new mileage numbers are almost all smaller, whatever rational explanation might exist, it's hard not to be cynical and think this isn't a ploy to shave off some RDMs and knock enough EQMs off to keep some marginal premiers from requalifying at their old level.
Mar 6, 2012, 9:50 pm
#143
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...Since the new mileage numbers are almost all smaller, whatever rational explanation might exist, it's hard not to be cynical and think this isn't a ploy to shave off some RDMs and knock enough EQMs off to keep some marginal premiers from requalifying at their old level.
Just a complete and utter joke. I had reservations about leaving UA entirely even with status on DL now. Consider the tide turned.
Mar 6, 2012, 10:35 pm
#144
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The Great Circle Mapper has this flight at 2586. On this city pair, UA is cheating, it seems.
Mar 6, 2012, 10:40 pm
#145
Company Representative, United Airlines
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Hi Everyone, in true FlyerTalk form, your detailed thought and research on this topic are worth talking about. And as usual, we have a pretty boring explanation for what really happened.
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
Mar 6, 2012, 10:58 pm
#146
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Hi Everyone, in true FlyerTalk form, your detailed thought and research on this topic are worth talking about. And as usual, we have a pretty boring explanation for what really happened.
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
and c) folks who flew pre 3/3 but whose mileage postings were held up by the temporary shutdown for system integration purposes should at the very least have their original mileage posted as THAT was not their fault
Mar 6, 2012, 11:15 pm
#147
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LAX
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Hi Everyone, in true FlyerTalk form, your detailed thought and research on this topic are worth talking about. And as usual, we have a pretty boring explanation for what really happened.
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
The intern that thought this beauty up should prepare for the onslaught when FT wakes up to this. Would have been nice for UA to throw us a bone. Guess that has no place in the new corporate culture.
Last edited by anc-ord772; Mar 6, 2012 at 11:20 pm
Mar 6, 2012, 11:19 pm
#148
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Shannon
Mar 6, 2012, 11:20 pm
#149
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I flew on 3/1 under sUA LGA-ORD-PDX. I imagine you refreshed the calculation data on 3/2 or later. At what point can I expect an adjustment for the mileage UA has incorrectly posted for those flights?
The intern that thought this beauty up should prepare for the onslaught when FT wakes up to this.
The intern that thought this beauty up should prepare for the onslaught when FT wakes up to this.
MCI-SFO on 3/2 was posted with incorrect mileage.
As far as the comment about mileage matching competitors, we've seen the opposite.. Routes that used to match (AA/UA for SFO-ORD, for example) are now different
Mar 6, 2012, 11:24 pm
#150
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