Wow! This page has some really brilliant thinking - why can't it always be this way?
Monsiuer lF tom - wouldn't that be something? Trying to avoid UA and still end up on their planes...you'll get to see a fabulous video before take-off
Monsieur joel67 - I think you hit it right on the head re: "old boys network" I never heard about United gathering their best flyers and management to talk/mingle.
Monsieur jetsetr - your comment for Monsieur Fredd also, I think we all get the less competition/devaluating the MP program, ECON101, but at the expense of what? The smart thing would have been to now get market share from their competitors by going after their (AA, DL, US) elites, instead they've driven their own away, very short-term thinking - and you are right they should have done something for PMUA MM. Just like they separated the IE's, maybe give us a special title - that alone would have given them so much good will. I hope it isn't all wishful thinking...and that something will change.
And finally....
Messrs. dpcpachd et Ukalien -
It's quite incredible when one stops to think things through and "connect the dots", it just may be we were all "sold down the river" - it seems it is all about "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" on the very top levels of both UA & Chase, even more so if Slimsek has the "old boys club" mentality. I even bet it's just the tip of the iceberg....in other words, there has to be many more dots behind the scenes going on between Chase/United/Tilton/Slimsek/et al - I don't know if Tilton is indeed talented as an executive (there are many executives who really arent that bright), but he sure did bring a "big fish" with his position to Chase. UA wins with mileage sales revenue and Chase with fees and interest from their customers (and wouldn't be surprised if UA had their finger in the pot of that revenue stream as well).
All about squeezing as much $$ out of single passenger/customer and giving the appearance of "You're In".....
UG
__________________
An open letter to United Airlines, spread the word Million Milers United
Programs: UA1K BIS Million Mile Flyer, HH Diamond, IC Plat, SPG Plat, Marriott Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 8,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
The reason no one predicted that UA would remove or reduce the "lifetime" benefits of existing PMUA MMers is because no one suspected that the new management does not respect loyalty or honesty or the truth.
"United on the other hand has a Million Miles and Beyond program in which once you have flown one million lifetime base miles with United, you earn Premier Executive for life, two confirmed regional upgrades at the end of every year and three system-wide upgrades to be used one-class, one-way."
"At one million miles: Mileage Plus members receive lifetime Premier Executive status along with Star Alliance Gold--the highest of the Star Alliance two elite tiers. Premier Executive is the second tier in a three-tier elite program and offers a 100 percent flight mileage bonus as well as complimentary domestic upgrades for Premier Executive members and one traveling companion flying within the continental U.S., Hawaii, Alaska, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America.
Lounge access is also available for member and a guest with a same-day international ticket on a Star Alliance carrier departing from that airport. As a million miler you'll also receive two regional upgrades per year and three systemwide upgrades."
Nor did Wikipedia as recently as 2011, quoted here:
Quote:
"Million Miles and Beyond is a program offered to Mileage Plus members who have flown one million miles or more on United Airlines during their lifetime. These customers permanently receive the benefits of lifetime Premier Executive membership."
Was UA being deliberately deceptive in causing the widespread publication of "lifetime benefits" in these and other sources over a number of years? Was UA's wording confusing? Did UA take pro-active steps to correct the widespread misunderstanding?
I've been vaguely aware over the years of disagreements over lifetime memberships in fitness clubs. OTOH, sometimes there are happy endings to such disagreements.
Maybe UA will have a good look and reconsider once it's resolved the many pressing issues it currently faces.
It seems quite possible that we won't really know if our annual CR1s will be grandfathered or not until the end of the year. Given how well UA communicates these days ), they might just do it without telling us in advance, perhaps even to quickly defuse any pending legal actions. They may want to wait to see if the complaints have died down before deciding. Until then, this is one area where our own damages haven't yet occurred, although the issue has certainly caused real damage to UA's reputation.
Programs: UA1K BIS Million Mile Flyer, HH Diamond, IC Plat, SPG Plat, Marriott Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 8,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by joel67
It seems quite possible that we won't really know if our annual CR1s will be grandfathered or not until the end of the year. Given how well UA communicates these days ), they might just do it without telling us in advance, perhaps even to quickly defuse any pending legal actions. They may want to wait to see if the complaints have died down before deciding. Until then, this is one area where our own damages haven't yet occurred, although the issue has certainly caused real damage to UA's reputation.
Good points, although I still contend that I earned the lifetime benefits of Premier Executive status, which included a 100 percent flight mileage bonus. Since I'm currently 1K, I'm receiving that bonus but those who aren't 1K who won't be.
Programs: CO Plat/1K, DL Silver, HH Diamond, bmi dirt, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 22,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
The reason no one predicted that UA would remove or reduce the "lifetime" benefits of existing PMUA MMers is because no one suspected that the new management does not respect loyalty or honesty or the truth. -
Hold on to that thought. UA tinkered with the MM program before the merger. That alone should have been enough notice. Of course you did agree with terms and conditions that said they could be changed at any reason and at any times.
I think a lot of people predicted changes. One only had to look at to how different the two programs were to figure that out.
It seems quite possible that we won't really know if our annual CR1s will be grandfathered or not until the end of the year. Given how well UA communicates these days ), they might just do it without telling us in advance, perhaps even to quickly defuse any pending legal actions. They may want to wait to see if the complaints have died down before deciding. Until then, this is one area where our own damages haven't yet occurred, although the issue has certainly caused real damage to UA's reputation.
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Hi Joel,
Although the announced broken promise (rescission of the two annual regionals) is one area where our damages haven't yet occurred (because the end of the year is not yet here), there is one other breach in the million-mile program that theoretically has occurred.
This other area would be in the case of those who reached “real” million-mile status from January 1, of this year who did not receive SWUs as we “always” have in the past.
If we could locate any customers who achieved million-mile status, this year, the “old-fashioned way” (BIS) and who did not receive the promised SWUs, those individuals have been harmed.
If anyone knows of a UA customer who reached (BIS) million-mile status this year, please have that person contact me via PM.
Unless someone from this forum (or elsewhere) comes forward and volunteers their failure to receive SWUs at reaching “real” million-miles this year, we have no way of accelerating the filing of a class action.
There is another issue related to a UA paid membership program that is slated to be part of a class action. Both breached programs will be combined, if and when a class action is filed.
Filing a class action for only one of the programs is not on the agenda, or so I have been advised.
Thus, you are correct that parts of our damages have not yet occurred (to our knowledge). The unknown area is a major element in the delay for a class action being filed.
I agree that the matter of the breach of promised benefits has certainly caused real damage to UA’s reputation.
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Programs: CO Plat/1K, DL Silver, HH Diamond, bmi dirt, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 22,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
There is another issue related to a UA paid membership program that is slated to be part of a class action. Both breached programs will be combined, if and when a class action is filed.
Maybe UA will have a good look and reconsider once it's resolved the many pressing issues it currently faces.
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Hi Fredd,
Thanks for the link to the April 2008 article. Although the article is quite long, it held my interest. There were many predictions in the article that even the author never thought would happen to UA under the current regime.
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Programs: Marriott Lifetime Platinum (a true reward), and others...
Posts: 341
Fact Check
Here are the lifetime benefits offered to me in 2010 when I made the extra effort to achieve MM status on UA in JAN 2011:
1) 3 pieces of baggage without charge on star alliance flights.
2) 2 CR1 upgrade certificates each year.
3) 100% bonus miles for every UA or Lufthansa flight (subject to fare class in 2010).
4) Star Alliance Gold status.
5) Premium Executive privileges that included exit row and premium economy seating, premium security line, seating area 1 boarding, and 48 hour upgrade window clearing.
From what I have seen over that course of the last year, these benefits were reduced after I met the requirements for lifetime benefits.
I will be interested in legal efforts to secure compensation.
Cheers,
-Cyborg
Last edited by cyborg; Apr 7, 12 at 6:27 pm..
Reason: fare class bonus and grammar
Here are the lifetime benefits offered to me in 2010 when I made the extra effort to achieve MM status on UA in JAN 2011:
1) 3 pieces of baggage without charge on star alliance flights.
2) 2 CR1 upgrade certificates each year.
3) 100% bonus miles for every UA or Lufthansa flight (subject to fare class in 2010).
4) Star Alliance Gold status.
5) Premium Executive privileges that included exit row and premium economy seating, premium security line, seating area 1 boarding, and 48 hour upgrade window clearing.
From what I have seen over that course of the last year, these benefits were reduced after I met the requirements for lifetime benefits.
I will be interested in legal efforts to secure compensation.
You're correct, I agreed to the T&C's in 1982 and never agreed to after this...anyone have a copy of the T&C's from '82?
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It does not matter when you agreed to UA's terms and conditions of its frequent flier program. The right to change the program continued and continues, year to year.
However, the terms and conditions related to UA's right to change the program did not and do not apply to the knowing and intentional deceptive advertising that UA announced in connection with the million-mile program, beginning as early as 2009 and/or 2010. These announcements were posted at least one year prior to the September 2011 announcement of the demotions to the million-mile program.
Among other things, the new UA management knew it planned to demote members of the million-mile program. As an inducement to prevent those customers from defecting to other air carriers (thus continuing to generate additional revenue to UA), posted deceptive, false and misleading announcements on united.com. This caused customers to remain loyal to UA, while believing the benefits of the million-mile program would not change.
UA management later described (to a WSJ reporter), those deceptive, false and misleading announcements as "regrettable" and "confusing."
Sorry, that excuse does not qualify as delivering the terms of an agreement.
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Last edited by dgcpaphd; Apr 7, 12 at 8:54 pm..
Reason: spelling & addition
Programs: UA Gold-MM, HHonors - Diamond, Priority Club - Platinum, Marriott - Gold, SPG - Gold
Posts: 3,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagar
You're correct, I agreed to the T&C's in 1982 and never agreed to after this...anyone have a copy of the T&C's from '82?
By being a member of the MP program you are agreeing to the T&C's at all times. Does not matter when you joined. As long as you are a member you are agreeing. Only way to not agree is to cancel your account.
Programs: UA1K BIS Million Mile Flyer, HH Diamond, IC Plat, SPG Plat, Marriott Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 8,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagar
You're correct, I agreed to the T&C's in 1982 and never agreed to after this...anyone have a copy of the T&C's from '82?
Methinks it's being missed that you might have written this tongue-in-cheek, your point being that you've been a "loyal" UA customer since 1982, 30 years, and are displeased that your loyalty has been disrespected by UA's removing and/or "changing"* the widely advertised lifetime benefits for Million Mile Flyers.
The key issue and the key words IMO continue to be "lifetime benefits." What if UA had notified lifetime RCC members, "there's no longer a Red Carpet Club; however, as a courtesy we're replacing your lifetime benefit with a new lifetime benefit, an annual 10% discount on our new United Club membership?" Some would undoubtedly claim that UA has the right...
I'll state as a fact until somebody can document otherwise that nobody saw this coming, i.e. that the lifetime benefits of the PMUA Million Mile Flyers would not be grandfathered.. (Somebody must have somewhere - I haven't see it though.)
Nobody considered it in FT discussions such as this thread about how the two loyalty programs would be melded.
Nobody contemplated that UA would unilaterally and retroactively remove previously promised lifetime benefits. That includes such FT sages as Lucky in 2010:
Quote:
"Another challenge, in which I have a pretty big stake, is what they will do with their “million miler” program. After a million flown miles, United offers Premier Executive status (middle tier) for life, while Continental offers Silver status (lowest tier) for life, for the member and a companion. Certainly it’ll be tough to manage customer expectations in this case, as you can’t downgrade an existing lifetime Premier Executive to a lower tier, and you also can’t take away status from a spouse or friend. My prediction is that they’ll grandfather in the current million milers with their benefits, but then adopt Continental’s system. But that’s just rampant speculation on my part."
"Next year there will be ne program. Taking away MM benefits that were already earned is simply not going to happen."
At one level, it's indeed a bold move. UA treated members of certain groups within the two previous loyalty programs fairly and even generously. Is is because there are "too many" PMUA MMers that UA has chosen not to do the same for us?
The descriptions for that type of discriminatory behavior are not flattering.
*N.B. the unconsciously ironic and oxymoronic hilarity of the statement "[Here are the n]ew lifetime benefits..."
I'm curious why so many people take the phrase lifetime to mean till death do you part. Lifetime is how long the benefit lasts. It no longet lasts. It is done. Finished. The lifetime is over.
But, how come out of 4,000 posts there has been no tangible action for so many people that think lifetime means until death do you part. Forget the we can change the program part - your definition of lifetime doesn't match UA's definition - which is lifetime until the benefit changes.
I wish you all the best of luck. Your challenge will be litigating lifetime means until death. Good luck.
), they might just do it without telling us in advance, perhaps even to quickly defuse any pending legal actions. They may want to wait to see if the complaints have died down before deciding. Until then, this is one area where our own damages haven't yet occurred, although the issue has certainly caused real damage to UA's reputation.
ne program. Taking away MM benefits that were already earned is simply not going to happen."
