I'd recommend reading through the archives of the "Say Again?" column on www.avweb.com (free registration might be required). The column was written by a now-retired ATL center controller who was also the NATCA saftey rep. Excellent series of articles on all aspects of ATC and particularly on phraseology and communication
I've read some those before. I'll catch up on his latest articles. Rec.aviation.* (ifr and piloting) can have some good stories too and has some great input from some quite well known aviation folk like B. Gardner (author of Say Again?...ATC Comm for VFR pilots) and D. Henriques. I've considered inviting B. Gardner to the channel 9 thread.
Funny aside.....I went to a FAA Safety Seminar (Wings) on changes in the 2008 FAR's. The person giving the talk barely opened his mouth and some guy asks "How do the changes in the FAR's affect airline delays?" The lecturer was confused so the guy then semi-clarifies himself about the regulations about preventing the carriers from keeping pax on planes while sitting on the ramp for hours. I chime in and say "There are no regulations on that and it is completely up to the airline's own internal policies." The lecturer then says "the only regs are probably with duty limits." I add "which is why they don't return to the gate because that would require them to be re-dispatched in which case they could be over their duty limits potentially causing the cancellation of the flight." The lecturer says, "You must fly for a major." I say, "Ummm, actually not. But I'm a UA 1K, spend quite a bit of time passengering and after a while you pick up on these things." After the lecture, I did give a minor plug to FT though.
Because you (not you but the collective you) seem unable to separate actions from people. If you are unhappy and dislike the fact someone goes to work when you don't want them to thats your right, dislike (oh and to be fair I think "dislike" is way watered down here) their actions but it carries so much further where now someone who went to work to feed their family becomes a pariah.
When the supermarket strike was going on in CA they would yell and scream, often very nasty things, at customers trying to buy food, and the people working there, wow I heard some whoppers of stories. The SCAB scarlet letter then follows the workers forever, aparaently there's still some SCAB list from the 80's of UA pilots.
The mantra is always management isn't treating "us" right, but if you disagree with someone you have no problem dehumanizing them and treating them like crap. To hate (now that's a better term) someone for working is just pathetic. For a "brotherhood" you seem very willing, ready and able to throw some members of your "family" to the curb, then back your car over them.
thats one of the many reasons.
I'm not going to get into a union discussion on this thread since it's not really about that. Suffice it to say unless you belong to a union, you have no idea what they do. Especially in the airline industy. If it weren't for the union, planes would be crashing all over the country, because it is the union that gives pilots the ability to say NO to management when they are doing things dangerous. If management had their way, they would schedule pilots to max hours every day, min days off a month, and wouldn't care a bit about fatigue, ie Mesa Airlines. At United, we have the ability to call in sick or call in fatigued if we are too sick or tired to fly. Many airlines, you are threatened with termination if you call in sick or fatigued, so pilots are out there dead asleep at the wheel. Is that what you want?
The reason this career was worth anything was the unions negotiating salaries and work rules, not because management gave it to us. In fact, the only way a union can force management to negotiate in good faith is the threat of a strike, a withholding of ones labor services. When it gets to that action, it is a union's final way to get management to negotiate fairly. If negotiations are fair and equitable, then strike's don't happen.
When a person goes on strike, he is risking his job for the betterment of all his fellow pilots. It is unity, it means I will struggle to pay the bills and struggle to live so that we may ALL maybe have a better contract to live under. A SCAB says it is all about ME, what I WANT, what I DESERVE, in essence, all about themselves. They will willingly take the job of someone who is risking their job and going without pay in order to make the job better or defend what they have. A SCAB is one of the lowest life forms living IMO, and they always have an excuse, doesn't everyone?
I shudder to think what this country's airline industry would be if there wasn't a union ensuring safety and rest rules. If it ever happened (and I know McCain would love it), I would leave this career in a heartbeat because I won't become a smoking hole somewhere.
Just to let you know where I come from, not a union family growing up, Republican all my life (until the past 16 years), 20 year military pilot, married, Baptist, 4 kids and pretty conservative. I see what a union means to this job and your safety, so I think it is pretty important.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
I'm curious, are there any airports that have constant delays and pilots perceive the controllers as generally not knowing what they're doing?
Chicago - constant delays but it's because of traffic and the worst weather on the planet. The controllers are first rate though.
New York Area - constant delays, but due to traffic and surly controllers. They know what they are doing, but it is so inefficient there with airspace.
Houston - not the best controllers, so they get delays easily when weather starts to get bad.
Washington DC area - These yahoos used to be the worst in the system, Dulles would have long delays with just a cloud overhead. It has gotten a lot better over the last couple of years.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
Just curious, not looking to ask you to slam people, but what makes for a not-so-good (or good for that matter) controller? Is it mostly about anticipation skills? Staying cool when things get hectic? Or just efficient communication?
I'm not going to get into a union discussion on this thread since it's not really about that. Suffice it to say unless you belong to a union, you have no idea what they do. Especially in the airline industy. If it weren't for the union, planes would be crashing all over the country, because it is the union that gives pilots the ability to say NO to management when they are doing things dangerous. If management had their way, they would schedule pilots to max hours every day, min days off a month, and wouldn't care a bit about fatigue, ie Mesa Airlines. At United, we have the ability to call in sick or call in fatigued if we are too sick or tired to fly. Many airlines, you are threatened with termination if you call in sick or fatigued, so pilots are out there dead asleep at the wheel. Is that what you want?
The reason this career was worth anything was the unions negotiating salaries and work rules, not because management gave it to us. In fact, the only way a union can force management to negotiate in good faith is the threat of a strike, a withholding of ones labor services. When it gets to that action, it is a union's final way to get management to negotiate fairly. If negotiations are fair and equitable, then strike's don't happen.
When a person goes on strike, he is risking his job for the betterment of all his fellow pilots. It is unity, it means I will struggle to pay the bills and struggle to live so that we may ALL maybe have a better contract to live under. A SCAB says it is all about ME, what I WANT, what I DESERVE, in essence, all about themselves. They will willingly take the job of someone who is risking their job and going without pay in order to make the job better or defend what they have. A SCAB is one of the lowest life forms living IMO, and they always have an excuse, doesn't everyone?
I shudder to think what this country's airline industry would be if there wasn't a union ensuring safety and rest rules. If it ever happened (and I know McCain would love it), I would leave this career in a heartbeat because I won't become a smoking hole somewhere.
Just to let you know where I come from, not a union family growing up, Republican all my life (until the past 16 years), 20 year military pilot, married, Baptist, 4 kids and pretty conservative. I see what a union means to this job and your safety, so I think it is pretty important.
Thank you for your perspective, I talked to a UA Captain who was also around 20 years in the military and he had quite a different perspective on Unions and management. It's fascinating to see both sides told by people who live "the dream"..meaning you all who are airline pilots (a dream job, in my opinion).
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BoyAreMyArmsTired:
My favourite saying is "Beauty fades, but stupid lasts forever"
It used to be. I wanted to be an airline pilot since I was 5 years old. Now, I steer clear my kids from this occupation. I tell them go become a successful doctor or lawyer or something and own your own plane, that would be a dream job
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
Just curious, not looking to ask you to slam people, but what makes for a not-so-good (or good for that matter) controller? Is it mostly about anticipation skills? Staying cool when things get hectic? Or just efficient communication?
Washington used to have very poorly trained controllers, and I mean by that just lazy I guess. They used to handle 1/2 the traffic that Chicago was doing, and that was in clear air. When weather came in, forget about it. There were times I used to be slowed to 250 knots down over Atlanta on the way into IAD due to weather/traffic. I would go from 30 min ahead of schedule to 40 min behind schedule, and when we arrived, not a cloud in the sky. The joke used to be that IAD was a Cat 3 airport, it could handle 3 planes in clear air, 2 planes with 1 cloud, and 1 plane with 2 or more clouds
The good things I heard that they were given and inspection and almost all the controllers failed and needed retraining. So, from what I can tell when I go in there, it is much much better. Now, I only fear the NYC,PHL area for delays, and Chicago for weather issues.
__________________
These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
The joke used to be that IAD was a Cat 3 airport, it could handle 3 planes in clear air, 2 planes with 1 cloud, and 1 plane with 2 or more clouds
Thanks for the info.
Was on a PHL-DEN flight once, connecting from DUB-PHL (hence on US as UA sadly doesn't fly into DUB direct), and thus particularly non-plussed about weather delays we were experiencing.
The pilot came on and talked about how the NY and DC airspaces basically pinch PHL such that in bad weather they have very little room to get out of there. He said it happens so often that they call it "The Philadelphia Effect," which even in my foul mood at the time I thought was pretty funny.
So my question for the pro's:
Does United make sure of one of the flight crew has past experience flying into an airport? I am just thinking that it might be helpful, especially when flying into one of the Chinese or South American airports and airspace that there is past experience in the cockpit. As always, thanks for your contribution. This is my favorite thread to read!
Rob
So my question for the pro's:
Does United make sure of one of the flight crew has past experience flying into an airport? I am just thinking that it might be helpful, especially when flying into one of the Chinese or South American airports and airspace that there is past experience in the cockpit. As always, thanks for your contribution. This is my favorite thread to read!
Rob
We have some airports that are known as Special Qualification airports. There are restrictions on them, such as the Capt or F/O must have flown into there within the past 12 months, or the captain must review the special qualification pages we have for the field, or watch a video if there is one. If none of these have been met then there is a minimum ceiling and visibility requirement for the field to make it a safer entry. San Francisco would be one of these fields.
Then we have Supervised Entry fields where a captain has to fly in and out with a line check airman for their first time. Mexico City is an example of that.
At any time, if a captain doesn't feel comfortable going into a specific place because they never go there (say Jackson Hole, WY), they can request a route qual with a LCA into that field so they get a supervised entry.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
Question about drinking on the plane. Not by pax, but FA's and/or pilots. I was on last flight the day before a holiday, crew on their way home. Once at cruising alt., FA said over the intercom "Juuudy (or Kim or whatever) where arrrreee you?" in singsong voice. Two girls ran up the aisle clumsily from back galley, sat next to random pax and took pictures of themselves, and then they gave many of us free alcohol (economy), and passed out tons of extra wrapped food from "a cart they raided". Not discreetly, and it was obvious to all around that they were sloshed. Lots of running back and forth, pax speculation of a hide and seek game in the lavs. When we touched down, it was even announced, "Welcome to...insert wrong airport's name" followed by lots of giggling.
I'm sure they had fun and it makes a great story, but I (and other pax) was concerned. What if there had been an emergency? All that training wouldn't be worth beans if FA passed out. What is the rule on alcohol for crew/pilots, and what was the duty of the pilots in this case, since they probably didn't even know? What happens if alcohol is smelled on a pilot's breath, is there a test similar to the one for autos? Oh, and BTW this was not a UA flight. Just one more reason why I fly UA
I'm sure they had fun and it makes a great story, but I (and other pax) was concerned. What if there had been an emergency? All that training wouldn't be worth beans if FA passed out. What is the rule on alcohol for crew/pilots, and what was the duty of the pilots in this case, since they probably didn't even know? What happens if alcohol is smelled on a pilot's breath, is there a test similar to the one for autos? Oh, and BTW this was not a UA flight. Just one more reason why I fly UA
Wow, you serious? I would have reported them as soon as I landed. Wow.
