That's unique! I guess that would make route mods a bit easier!
I'm just hoping they hook it up to the inflight internet access! Nothing like reading FT at work...
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I flew the DC8 that JAL landed in San Fransisco Bay. Seemed fine. Wasn't hardly any mold...
That's amazing! I didn't realize you guys got that airplane. No suicidal thoughts after flying it? (The JAL captain unfortunately committed suicide after the accident)
I've flown a couple airplanes that have history (666UA, with double engine failures), but can't say I felt any differently.
I'm just hoping they hook it up to the inflight internet access! Nothing like reading FT at work...
Ah, that reminds me of a question I'd forgotten to ask.
What is UA's policy for engaging in non-work-related tasks while at work? We've all seen FAs sitting in the galley doing a sudoku puzzle in between beverage services; is the same type of thing permitted in the cockpit? If so, how far do they let you go--read books? Magazines? How about using electronic devices (i.e. listening to an iPod with an earbud in one ear and the headset over your other one, watching a movie on an iPod, or evenulling out your laptop)?
I'm sure those latter ones are against policy, but I do believe I've heard some pilots say they use long transcons or intercontinental flights to catch up on reading...not much to do when the autopilot's doing most of the work, I guess. Obviously, at least one of you would need to be monitoring things and probably keeping an eye out the front of the plane for unreported or deviated traffic or something...so can you take turns monitoring the flight and let the other person keep from going insane on an 8-hour flight? Or do you just have to grin and bear it?
I'm assuming that with a flight path programmed into the FMC or a direct route via GPS, there's not a lot to do, but my assumption may be wrong. Exactly how much work does the FMC do for you? Will it automatically tune the nav radios to the appropriate VOR and basically fly the plane from fix to fix, or do you still need to do things manually? How much of your flying is still done using fixes versus direct routings using the GPS? (I guess if there's still a lot of manual input/tuning to be done, you wouldn't have much time for reading or anything...)
And in the interest of reducing insanity on long but single-crew flights, if one of you leaves the cockpit for a bathroom break or just to stretch your legs, is there a maximum permitted time there can only be one pilot in the cockpit, or can one of you leisurely stretch your legs, use the bathroom, talk to the FAs, etc. for as long as you want as long as you're back before beginning the approach?
Ah, that reminds me of a question I'd forgotten to ask.
What is UA's policy for engaging in non-work-related tasks while at work? We've all seen FAs sitting in the galley doing a sudoku puzzle in between beverage services; is the same type of thing permitted in the cockpit? If so, how far do they let you go--read books? Magazines? How about using electronic devices (i.e. listening to an iPod with an earbud in one ear and the headset over your other one, watching a movie on an iPod, or evenulling out your laptop)?
I'm sure those latter ones are against policy, but I do believe I've heard some pilots say they use long transcons or intercontinental flights to catch up on reading...not much to do when the autopilot's doing most of the work, I guess. Obviously, at least one of you would need to be monitoring things and probably keeping an eye out the front of the plane for unreported or deviated traffic or something...so can you take turns monitoring the flight and let the other person keep from going insane on an 8-hour flight? Or do you just have to grin and bear it?
I'm assuming that with a flight path programmed into the FMC or a direct route via GPS, there's not a lot to do, but my assumption may be wrong. Exactly how much work does the FMC do for you? Will it automatically tune the nav radios to the appropriate VOR and basically fly the plane from fix to fix, or do you still need to do things manually? How much of your flying is still done using fixes versus direct routings using the GPS? (I guess if there's still a lot of manual input/tuning to be done, you wouldn't have much time for reading or anything...)
And in the interest of reducing insanity on long but single-crew flights, if one of you leaves the cockpit for a bathroom break or just to stretch your legs, is there a maximum permitted time there can only be one pilot in the cockpit, or can one of you leisurely stretch your legs, use the bathroom, talk to the FAs, etc. for as long as you want as long as you're back before beginning the approach?
During cruise, the autopilot is pretty much flying the jet, while we just put inputs into the computer and monitor the systems, fuel, weather, timing, stuff like that. Usually the pilots just chat about stuff if they get along well and have similiar interests. If not, then the pilot flying flies and monitors the jet, the other pilot is doing all the radio calls. You're not really allowed to have a laptop out working or listening to an IPOD, stuff like that. You're allowed to read your manuals and company related material. Some may read a personal book real quick if they have some time, but most of the time, even on transcons, we just talk with each other. Makes time go by quicker.
No time limit for getting out of the seat, but the other pilot is on an oxygen mask, so you don't want him up there breathing the mask forever.
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Last edited by aluminumdriver; Jan 30, 08 at 12:57 pm.
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Thanks again for all your time...quick question when you have time.
Does your airline get, in your opinion, preferential treatment at your hubs from ATC and conversely, do you basically get screwed at other airlines hubs?
I was on a UA flight from IAH-DEN last week and we were about 4 planes back for takeoff, then ATC "squeezed" about 7 Continental planes in front of us from a different taxiway. Seems to me from listening to CH 9 overtime, that hub airlines seem to get more breaks from local ATC, any truth to this?
Thanks again for all your time...quick question when you have time.
Does your airline get, in your opinion, preferential treatment at your hubs from ATC and conversely, do you basically get screwed at other airlines hubs?
I was on a UA flight from IAH-DEN last week and we were about 4 planes back for takeoff, then ATC "squeezed" about 7 Continental planes in front of us from a different taxiway. Seems to me from listening to CH 9 overtime, that hub airlines seem to get more breaks from local ATC, any truth to this?
Thanks again.
Again, this is just my opinion of what I see, but I don't ever really see United get preferential treatment at any of our hubs. I have seen other airlines get little shortcuts at their hubs, like Atlanta, MSP, Houston and DFW.
I think it may have to do with A) most of our hubs are not true dominant hubs like Delta owns Atlanta or American at Dallas, CAL at Houston and NWA in Mini. Even our biggest hub ORD has American there who is almost as large. Denver is the closest we have to a dominant carrier hub and I've never received preferential treatment there.
Reason B) United management has managed to PO most everyone they come in contact with, to include our domicile cities like Denver. When you heard that Delta may merge, you saw Atlanta and Georgia run to their rescue. MN ran to defend NWA. When United was mentioned for a merger, Chicago, Denver, SFO, none of those cities were out there demanding that United's presence in their cities be protected. It's kind of interesting. Wish United spent more time cultivating good relations with our domicile cities.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
Thanks to all of you for taking the time to answer our many questions here!
What might cause a very loud pounding noise that reverberated through the entire aircraft in rapid succession (6-8 times)? We were on a MD-83 (sorry not United) flying through a severe thunderstorm in route back from Mexico several years ago. I asked the flight attendants for an explanation and received “We’ve never experienced anything like that before”. Upon deplaning, I also asked the captain and he refused to answer. I’ve flown through many a storm in my life and on many different aircraft types, even had a lightning strike, but nothing similar to this.
No time limit for getting out of the seat, but the other pilot is on an oxygen mask, so you don't want him up there breathing the mask forever.
Congrats and thanks for this great thread - I am yet to read it all . WOW it has grown.
Why is the other pilot on an oxygen mask when you take a seat break?
Another question: on the long SYD/SFO/LAX flights do you get to have a break - for sleeping etc, while other pilots take over? If yes, where do you go to rest? Same area as the cabin crew or do you have different rest areas?
That's amazing! I didn't realize you guys got that airplane.
The airplane was fine. It flew for many years after it's "water landing". It has since been chopped up for scrap so it's days did finally come to an end.
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Originally Posted by RickCO
What might cause a very loud pounding noise that reverberated through the entire aircraft in rapid succession (6-8 times)?
Might have been compressor stalls. They are caused by an incompatibility between the airflow into the engine's intake and the rotational speed of the compressor fan and can be caused either by mechanical problems internal to the engine (i.e. malfunctioning bleed/surge valves) or by a disruption of the airflow into the engine.
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Originally Posted by Downunder girl
Why is the other pilot on an oxygen mask when you take a seat break?
1. Because the regs say so
2. Because the time of useful consciousness (TUC) at those altitudes can be very short. At FL350, for example, the TUC is only 30 to 60 seconds which would be reduced to 15 to 30 seconds if the decompression is rapid. At FL430 you're down to 9 to 12 seconds (4.5 to 6 seconds for rapid depressurization). This is also why the passengers traveling with children are instructed to secure their own mask first before putting the mask on their children.
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
1. Because the regs say so
2. Because the time of useful consciousness (TUC) at those altitudes can be very short. At FL350, for example, the TUC is only 30 to 60 seconds which would be reduced to 15 to 30 seconds if the decompression is rapid. At FL430 you're down to 9 to 12 seconds (4.5 to 6 seconds for rapid depressurization). This is also why the passengers traveling with children are instructed to secure their own mask first before putting the mask on their children.
MMMkay, I get that, but why is TUC not a consideration when the flight deck is fully staffed? In case of rapid decompression you both have the same 15-30 seconds to get your mask on, so I can't see how having both of you pass out at the same time would be any more useful than one of you passing out on the john and the other on the flight deck.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryJ
1. Because the regs say so
2. Because the time of useful consciousness (TUC) at those altitudes can be very short. At FL350, for example, the TUC is only 30 to 60 seconds which would be reduced to 15 to 30 seconds if the decompression is rapid. At FL430 you're down to 9 to 12 seconds (4.5 to 6 seconds for rapid depressurization). This is also why the passengers traveling with children are instructed to secure their own mask first before putting the mask on their children.
What's confused me on this, and I've asked on another pilot forum to no avail is, what is the logic behind this? Is the thinking that if two pilots are in the cockpit and there is a rapid depressurization, that at least one of them would have time to don the mask before becoming unconscious?
What's confused me on this, and I've asked on another pilot forum to no avail is, what is the logic behind this? Is the thinking that if two pilots are in the cockpit and there is a rapid depressurization, that at least one of them would have time to don the mask before becoming unconscious?
The masks are designed to be put on with one hand within 5 seconds. From experience, I know that's very easily doable.
With 15-30 seconds of TUC at most altitudes, it's reasonable to assume that at least one pilot will be able to get the mask on. But if there's only one of you up there, it becomes a single point failure and the FAA chooses to require the remaining pilot to always be on oxygen.
The FARs state that both pilots will be on oxygen any time the aircraft is above 41,000', or anytime one of the pilots is absent above 25,000'.
In practice, when do you put on the mask? Before the pilot leaves the cockpit? After the door is closed behind them? When is the mask removed? In the "old" days, the door was often left open or open/closed a lot during flight and I don't recall ever seeing the mask in use. I know when they do the switch now, I haven't noticed the mask used then either.
What is UA's policy for engaging in non-work-related tasks while at work?
We have a very new policy not to use electronic devices in the cockpit, and I've hardly ever seen anyone use iPods or watch movies, but occasionally I'll work on email on my laptop. We actually don't have any policy on reading (nothing in the FOM), but I also don't know anyone who'd pick up a newspaper in front of an FAA jumpseater.
We chat quite a bit enroute, but I also end up doing a good bit of reading (newspapers, I read the New Yorker), especially over the water. Books tend to be a little too engrossing, but on international flights some will read them.
We do have work to do, including plotting our position, taking down coordinates, checking fuel, confirming altitudes, etc., but they come at waypoints (over the water) every 30-45 minutes. Also, if there's turbulence, thunderstorms, or anything going wrong with the airplane, we can be very busy.
I know some will be surprised that we're not "paying attention" as much as they might expect, but honestly, there are very few trees that pop up in the middle of the road at 35,000'. Anything that goes wrong with the airplane will be accompanied by lights and noise, which will quickly get our attention. The workload of the job is also very intense for about the first 1.5 hours (including ground time) and last hour, but the middle part (be it 15 minutes or 14 hours) is less work intensive. It's fairly easy to sit back, drink some coffee, and read the NYT.
What you're really paying us for is not to sit there in cruise holding the wings level with our eyes riveted on the instruments (any 20 hour private pilot could do that). Even the 2 bunkies reading the paper could quickly make the right decisions and start the airplane heading for a successful diversion to Petropovlosk with an engine shut down in the middle of the night, if it came to it.
. WOW it has grown.
