You guys mention jumpseating on UX..... do all regional airplanes have jumpseats?
All except the B1900. On the 1900, seat 1A is designated as the jumpseat and there actually are headset jacks on the wall under the seat.
Often its no more than a fold down bench where the cockpit door itself serves as the seatback. It's as comfortable as it sounds.
Every commercial aircraft has to have a way for an FAA inspector to sit in the cockpit. They aren't on every flight, so if the flight is full a commuting pilot can sit up front on that seat if its not needed. However, if there is an open seat, most airlines require the pilot to sit in the back and we very willingly do so.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhayes_1780
It this part of some sort of "observing" capacity?
Yes. I think AD posted something dealing with this many moons ago in this thread. FAA inspectors, IIRC, ride with the cockpit crew on occasion and when they are in the cockpit, the license of the pilot being evaluated is on the line.
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Yes. I think AD posted something dealing with this many moons ago in this thread. FAA inspectors, IIRC, ride with the cockpit crew on occasion and when they are in the cockpit, the license of the pilot being evaluated is on the line.
Pretty sure there are also "check flights" of some sort that UA does internally with their pilots.
Of course, but I'd also like an FO who is willing to tell his captain that he is trying to kill everyone on the plane. It takes two to tango and they were both "experienced" pilots.
There is a big difference between experience and recent experience. I can't speak for other airlines regarding CRM, aka Cockpit Resource Management, but United pioneered it. They actually developed an enhanced version of it, called Command/Leadership/Resource Management. Among other things, it spells out the necessity for all cockpit crew members to verbalize their thoughts and concerns. The likelihood of an F/O who's had this drilled into their head allowing a relatively less current pilot (can you tell me that a management pilot puts in nearly the flight time as a "line swine"?) drive them into an obviously hazardous situation is relatively low.
Show me a pilot who says they never make mistakes and I'll show you a pilot who will eventually kill someone. The point is everyone makes mistakes; it is non-discriminatory.
I agree, there are none of us who haven't made mistakes, but the number drops with recent experience as well as total flight time. If you want to categorize mistakes into have or haven't, than I suppose it's non-discriminatory.
Of course experience matters, but its not everything and it doesn't automatically make a good pilot. Every airline pilot out there has flown with plenty examples of pilots who are "just good enough" but have a ton of time in type and somehow made it to captain. Not many, but they are out there, even at the majors.
As for the comparison with doctors, it doesn't stand up. I'd be very surprised if the majority of mistakes weren't committed by more experienced doctors under less supervision than the "newbies".
Also, since you brought it up, what does "well-trained and experienced professional" mean? At what point does a pilot reach that point?
Becoming experienced and well-trained obviously isn't something that one becomes at a certain point. I think you know that, so trying to define that point is pointless.
I really hope your answer isn't what everyone is alluding to, the time they make it by an interview board and can call themselves a major airline pilot, because, right now there are plenty of regional captains who could easy meet that standard and many who already have.
Checko
I don't want to spar with you over the minutae. You're certainly entitled to your opinions. I'll just say this: Experience counts. More recent experience is more valuable than less. Take two pilots, identical in every way, except one is flying the line 18 days a month and the other is flying 2 days a month, which one's more likely to make mistakes? If you say it doesn't matter, then more power to you. My 31 years flying, and 23 as a pilot for United says different.
Freshairborne
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Of course experience matters, my point is that the majors aren't the only domain where experience resides and flying at a major doesn't automatically make one experienced or flying for a regional, inexperienced. This is especially true if we are using this as a measure, but cannot quantify it.
Airliners, mainline and regional, aren't falling out of the sky every day, so I'd argue that things are much better than they are being made out to be.
Also, UA may have pioneered it (along with NASA), but it is not the only place were CRM is being used, every airline in the US uses it or a variation of it. It is one of the biggest reasons flying has gotten so safe in the past 10 years.
Where I fly we are taught a variation on this called TEM, Threat and Error Management, which uses the tenets of CRM and combines them with threat identification and management to ensure the safe outcome of a flight.
Checko
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Of course experience matters, my point is that the majors aren't the only domain where experience resides and flying at a major doesn't automatically make one experienced or flying for a regional, inexperienced. This is especially true if we are using this as a measure, but cannot quantify it.
Checko
Yep, just so. I'm done. cheers
Freshairborne
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Not necessarily always true. I will be flying this Friday from SJC-DEN-TUL. When I booked it, it was mainline all the way. It has since been changed to RJ from DEN-TUL. There are still 2 mainline flights but I don't make it to DEN in time for the first one and the second mainline flight would get me in way too late. So in this case I thought I was mainline all the way and it was changed in such a way that it is not feasible to change to one of the mainline planes.
That unfortunately is a danger dealing with an airline that outsources a majority of its flying. You could always call and ask to move to a mainline flight. I did this just a couple weeks ago on Delta and they did it for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhayes_1780
Oh... so thats why you avoid UX
It this part of some sort of "observing" capacity? or just for transport?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConciergeMike
Yes. I think AD posted something dealing with this many moons ago in this thread. FAA inspectors, IIRC, ride with the cockpit crew on occasion and when they are in the cockpit, the license of the pilot being evaluated is on the line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingAway
Pretty sure there are also "check flights" of some sort that UA does internally with their pilots.
You are correct. Besides our simulator checkrides, Captains also have an enroute checkride with a United standards captain every couple of years. Additionally, at any time we can have a FAA safety inspector on our jumpseat giving both the Capt and FO an enroute checkride.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aluminumdriver
That unfortunately is a danger dealing with an airline that outsources a majority of its flying. You could always call and ask to move to a mainline flight. I did this just a couple weeks ago on Delta and they did it for me.
Not possible. I am already on the first flight out of San Jose in the AM so don't get to DEN in time for the first mainline flight and the second one gets in too late. Even with all your diatribe I am not worried about flying UX and logistics of meeting people in Tulsa means I need to arrive when I do.
Not possible. I am already on the first flight out of San Jose in the AM so don't get to DEN in time for the first mainline flight and the second one gets in too late. Even with all your diatribe I am not worried about flying UX and logistics of meeting people in Tulsa means I need to arrive when I do.
No diatribe from me, I just posted why I personally don't feel comfortable on regional carriers, has nothing to do with you. If you're happy on UX or any regional carrier, by all means fly them.
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Last edited by aluminumdriver; Jul 1, 09 at 10:34 am.
would 100% disagree with you on the regionals getting more experienced pilots. Most pilots being furloughed from a major carrier are not running to a regional carrier. Very few pilots who have reached a major carrier in their late 30's, early 40's timeframe can afford to go back and work at a regional for $18K/yr. I know I can't, AND WON'T, so I don't see a whole slew of more experienced pilots running to the regional carriers and the carriers having more experienced pilots to choose from. There may be some more senior pilots now in the left seat since they are staying at their carrier longer as there has been no hiring at the majors, but as a whole those being hired are still young, low time pilots who are happy making $18K a year because they only have several hundred hours and they want the flight time and experience.
It was pretty amazing when I flew on my last UAX flight. My pilots were young. They sounded like college kids when they said, "This is the captain speaking." However, as we left the aircraft and saw the pilots who were going to assume the plane, I was shocked. These kids looked like they could pass for high school seniors. They would have easily been carded at a bar. Yet they were the pilots in charge of these people's lives.
It was kinda scary, but it kinda wasn't. I think someone who wants to be a pilot has the personality to be very responsible, calm, and in control. Nervous wreck-types, anxious, adrenaline-seeker, easily bored, and whimsical flight-by-night people tend not to choose being a pilot for a career. The pilot personality tends to be very reliable and very stable. Thus, even though these guys were young, I could sense that they would still be responsible even in an emergency.
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I've been lurking in this thread for all 165 pages, but I can't remember if these questions were asked before (if they were, please inform me of my forgetfulness )
Two questions:
1. on average, how often does the master caution light turn on? (per flight, per day, per week, per month ... whichever scale makes the most sense)
2. how often have you done RTOs? which was your most memorable one?
Last edited by maradori; Jul 2, 09 at 10:04 pm.
Reason: minor grammatical fix
I've been lurking in this thread for all 165 pages, but I can't remember if these questions were asked before (if they were, please inform me of my forgetfulness )
Two questions:
1. on average, how often does the master caution light turn on? (per flight, per day, per week, per month ... whichever scale makes the most sense)
2. how often have you done RTOs? which was your most memorable one?
1. At least for me, a master caution (we have ECAMS on the airbus) comes on maybe once every other month or so. Most are nuisance warnings that we can reset a system, or just defer the inop system. I can go months without something, then have a month were it seems each trip I get something written up.
2. RTO's are VERY rare. Once we pass 80 knots, we are in the high speed regime and don't reject a takeoff unless it is a safety of flight issue, which are few and rare. I can't remember when I did my last RTO in the jet, but we do them every time in the simulator during our training.
AD
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