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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshairborne
First, let me say that your name Cholula is the name of the stuff that's essential to a properly maintained "crew meal repair kit". It, or some version thereof, resides in vast quantities in my, and many other, flight chart kits. Why do you think those things are so heavy-looking, hanging off the back of our suitcases?!
I’ve had several FA’s tell me that over the years as well.
I guess I didn’t realize what a critical role we played in the aviation industry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenhawk
Thanks, Freshairborne for the detailed explanation of seniority, along with your experience - very interesting!.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFflyer123
I was flying PVG-SFO last week. While waiting for United's 858, I saw a BA plane (I think it was a 777) next to us. As it backed out, there was a device in the tail section that was opened. It looked very non-aerodynamic. After pushback, it was then closed. I could not figure out what this thing was. Anybody know?
intake for the apu? if it is, then perhaps the "rectangle" that opens on the side of the fuselage back by the "flat part" at the very end by the tail is the output (for lack of a better term) for the apu. like my signature says, what do i know
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Moderator: Hawaii-Based Airlines, Travel with Children & United Mileage Plus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFflyer123
I was flying PVG-SFO last week. While waiting for United's 858, I saw a BA plane (I think it was a 777) next to us. As it backed out, there was a device in the tail section that was opened. It looked very non-aerodynamic. After pushback, it was then closed. I could not figure out what this thing was. Anybody know?
I was flying PVG-SFO last week. While waiting for United's 858, I saw a BA plane (I think it was a 777) next to us. As it backed out, there was a device in the tail section that was opened. It looked very non-aerodynamic. After pushback, it was then closed. I could not figure out what this thing was. Anybody know?
Thanks, Freshairborne for the detailed explanation of seniority, along with your experience - very interesting!
So, who (not his/her name) is #1? In other words, how many years does #1 have with UA and for how long is #1 actually there before the mandatory retirement age? What is this person flying?
Thanks again.
Here's more than you asked, but I thought a little insight from a pilot's perspective regarding mandatory retirement might be of some interest to you and others.
The #1 pilot as of July last year was hired in 1978 at the age of 30. He's flying the 747-400. the mandatory retirement age, up until about a year and a half ago, was 60. It was changed to 65. both are arbitrary numbers, because it's impossible to predict, based on age, when someone is no longer able to effectively fly an airliner. There are people whom are physically and mentally incapable of the job at much younger than 60, and those whom are still very near their peak well beyond 65.
In my opinion, the primary reason that the age 60 thing was brought up to the point of having federal law changed is that, since so many pilots had their pensions frozen or completely eliminated, it would be advantageous to be able to generate money for 5 more years rather than spending it. Coupled with that is the fact that, when the age 60 restriction was originally put in place back in 1959, people didn't live as long, and were usually not staying in as good physical condition as they are now.
I plan on striking a balance, assuming that I am employed as an airline pilot for the foreseeable future: My parents are both in their mid 80s and in great shape, both physically and mentally. I am in good condition in my mid 50s. Social Security might be around and of some benefit when I'm 62. I plan on being in good shape for a long time, and would prefer not to waste it in a cockpit, so even though my pension was toast in '05, my UA stock went from .4M to $1099.74 (before taxes) and my earning power is at 51% of what it was before '03, both as a paycheck and as a contributor to a 401k, I plan to get out as soon as I can. Could be next year if UA ceases to exist, or when I hit a magic number in net worth, or go to 60, or 62, or my wife is able to market her vast talent in Urban Planning, Zoning, and Development, or teaching disabled folks to SCUBA, or teaching folks to ride motorcycles safely (her 'other, "other"' job). In any case, when I'm 65, I will be flying my snowboard and not a UA airplane.
Pilots, there are some fairly polar opinions regarding age 60 vs 65. The younger guys say that if old, and presumably senior guys stay an extra few years, it will slow their seniority progression. It's no myth; there are a lot less bids available, all other things being equal, which they aren't. The older guys say they lost so much in the "shared sacrifice", as it was called by our management, that they can't afford to retire. Pre- age 65 but post 9/11, most retiring pilots either had a business going, or went to a flying job where there are no age restrictions. That's pretty much anywhere other than the airlines.
I'm....stuck in the middle. My younger buds toss a little verbal insubordination my way for being a potential Geezer-in-their-captain-seat, while the guys that stick around are stagnating my progression.
My ace in the hole is that I don't really want to fly long haul international on a 747 or 777 because I can't sleep well in my own time zone, let alone 6 or 8 away. I'd love to retire from the Airbus 320 because I'd be relatively senior, flying in a quiet, comfortable cockpit with a ¡¡¡¡¡TRAY TABLE!!!!!! and having some days off of my choosing. I flew the 'Bus for 6 years prior to the 757/767, and thought that the 75/76 would be as awesome as it was when I was an F/O on it 16 years ago. WRONG!!!! The 757 seat hurts me bum!!
Freshairborne
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These are my own observations and/or opinions, and not necessarily those of the Air Line Pilots Association or UAL Corp.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshairborne
Somewhere, buried within my lengthy response to Cholula in my last post, is an explanation of the DEN flying and how it compares to the other bases.
Fascinating! Thank you so much for the explanation. Explains a lot, not the least of which is why I always like the Denver-based crews. Might have to keep an eye out next time I'm on a 'bus flight.
AD, the exhaust port for the APU on the 777 is portside, aft tail cone (it's a round port in the 'ducktail').
Thanks for all the answers! That totally make sense. The only thing I see wrong with that APU input design is that if it were to malfunction in the open position, it would be aerodynamically horrible. In fact, I wonder if it were stuck in the open position, it would be a contraindication to flying the plane, with either massive fuel loss from the drag or danger of the thing ripping off causing severe tail damage. I wonder why they didn't just design it to open backwards instead of forward!
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Thanks for all the answers! That totally make sense. The only thing I see wrong with that APU input design is that if it were to malfunction in the open position, it would be aerodynamically horrible. In fact, I wonder if it were stuck in the open position, it would be a contraindication to flying the plane, with either massive fuel loss from the drag or danger of the thing ripping off causing severe tail damage. I wonder why they didn't just design it to open backwards instead of forward!
Not at all, it can be in the open and running position in the air. All of United's planes have APU's, and they are designed to be used in flight if needed, in fact we plan on using them when we are in low weather autoland situations, or when we lose an engine or generator in flight, we start up the APU for the generator.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
How does commuting work? Do you always fly on United when you commute? If you don't fly on United, do you have to pay the seat cost on the other airline? Will a Delta or US Air Captain (for example) let a United pilot sit in the jumpseat?
How does commuting work? Do you always fly on United when you commute? If you don't fly on United, do you have to pay the seat cost on the other airline? Will a Delta or US Air Captain (for example) let a United pilot sit in the jumpseat?
At this time, I am not a commuter, and don't plan to be in the near future, but I've certainly done my share of it in the past.
The main method for commuting is to ride our own airline's cockpit jumpseat. Typically, a pilot will list for a non-rev, space-available seat. We can do this at home on the employee web page. The ideal situation would be that there are empty seats available, and we just get a boarding pass and get on like everyone else, except the boarding passes aren't handed out until all non SA's have been accommodated. If it's obvious that there will be no empty seats, we will let the gate agent know that we can ride the cockpit jumpseat. The F/A jumpseats are off limits to us, as are the cockpit jumpseats for the F/As. This is because we are not qualified in each others' positions.
On domestic airplanes, the cockpit jumpseats are either OK or pretty bad, compared to a real seat. Some are nothing more than a piece of wood with some cloth on them, and others are almost as good as a coach seat. I seem to remember some fairly nice seats on the 747s & 777s. The 767s have a pretty nice seat, about like a coach seat.
Some pilots prefer a jumpseat to a first class seat, if they listed for a seat vs planned to ride the jumpseat. The reason is that we get a healthy chunk deducted from our paychecks for riding in first or business class. Coach is not charged to us. That wasn't always true.
Once in the jumpseat, then if any seats are available in back, we are allowed to occupy that seat. Back in my early days, as a commuter for about ten years, all told, there was often a first class seat, and we could slide on back once the cabin door was shut. That is rarely the case now, but it was the best treat a commuter could have, especially if commuting home from an all-nighter or international trip.
United's 737s, and all but 10 or so 757s have only one jumpseat. They go in seniority order, so if the flights are all full and it's a heavy commuter leg like from any hub, junior's gonna walk or wait.
We have reciprocal jumpseat agreements with just about all airlines, so we can use theirs as well as them using ours. The priorities are a zoo, as you can imagine, with UA, UAX, etc. Then, there's the priorities within the offline carrier. Some get first come first served, others are seniority. There is a long drawn out pecking order flowchart for each carrier.
Currently, I do a lot of back and forth between DEN and OAK to visit my parents. United used to have 9 flights a day between those cities, but since Southwest came to town, we now have 2, and they have 4. I also go to SNA to do an "other" job occasionally. I avoid United on either of those routes. Jumpseating on Frontier and SWA is a total breeze. I just show up at the gate, they actually know what their load looks like so they hand me a boarding pass if they think there will be empty seats, and I get on the plane like a real person. No charges, no hassles. I've even had a SWA gate agent hand me a boarding pass and say that it looked tight, but if they needed my seat, they'd come and find me to move me up to the cockpit.
When I was commuting, I was so junior that there was little choice on my trips, such as departure and arrival times. An ideal trip for a commuter to fly is one that they can commute in the day of the trip, and commute home the day the trip ends, thereby avoiding crash pad or motel costs. When I upgraded from flight engineer to copilot, I went from being based where I lived to being based in Chicago (again). I was, at the time, the most junior copilot at United for 6 months, and thus, had a crash pad with 5 other guys. I did it for the glory, because my total pay raise, a combination of upgrading and going to third year pay, totaled $113 a month, woefully short of covering commuting costs. And that raise put me out of the running for food stamps (no, I am not kidding!) (I know, I could have quit).
There was a guy in my new-hire class, in 1986, who commuted from somewhere in Texas to Chicago for the whole time he worked here. He quit about 5 years ago. I called him a couple years ago, and he answered from one of the decks of a 110' yacht in the Greek Isles somewhere. He was a pilot for some rich guy, but it wasn't an airline CEO who's initials are GT, it was some guy who made his own money and treated his employees as assets instead of liabilities (small dig). I asked him if the guy was hiring. He hung up on me (nooooo, not really).
That's my recollection of commuting. As I said, it's been a while for me, but I think it's gotten worse for commuters, not better. The flights are usually so full that the cockpit is where they end up. I get a lot of them looking for rides in my cockpits, probably 30% of the time, and I am always pleased if they can go find a seat in the back. Most guys want nothing to do with a cockpit unless they're in one of the pilot seats.
Freshairborne
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These are my own observations and/or opinions, and not necessarily those of the Air Line Pilots Association or UAL Corp.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshairborne
Some pilots prefer a jumpseat to a first class seat, if they listed for a seat vs planned to ride the jumpseat. The reason is that we get a healthy chunk deducted from our paychecks for riding in first or business class. Coach is not charged to us. That wasn't always true.
(emphasis mine)
Wow! I didn't know that NRSAs got charged for C/F seating. I thought that NRSAs were entitled to C/F by union contract if space was available in C/F.
Is the charge just for commuting in C/F, or on recreational NRSA travel as well?
There might actually be some business sense (beyond labor relations, but actually financial logic) in giving NRSAs seats C/F then, if it actually serves as a cost cutter for the airline (by paycheck deduction) and effectively earns some revenue from the non-revenue ticket.
__________________ CollegeFlyer is now LawSchoolFlyer. zomg i passed teh bar!!!
Wow! I didn't know that NRSAs got charged for C/F seating. I thought that NRSAs were entitled to C/F by union contract if space was available in C/F.
Is the charge just for commuting in C/F, or on recreational NRSA travel as well?
There might actually be some business sense (beyond labor relations, but actually financial logic) in giving NRSAs seats C/F then, if it actually serves as a cost cutter for the airline (by paycheck deduction) and effectively earns some revenue from the non-revenue ticket.
Yes, we get charged unless it's a scheduled deadhead. It costs something in fuel, water, soft drinks, etc, so they charge for it. It was a couple years ago that they quit charging for coach travel. We used to pay 1/2 the cost of a first or business class seat.
We also pay regular price for things that everyone else pays for, like chips, sandwiches, beer, etc. That's true even when deadheading.
Everyone, other than management, is subject to nickel & diming.
Freshairborne
__________________
These are my own observations and/or opinions, and not necessarily those of the Air Line Pilots Association or UAL Corp.
How does commuting work? Do you always fly on United when you commute? If you don't fly on United, do you have to pay the seat cost on the other airline? Will a Delta or US Air Captain (for example) let a United pilot sit in the jumpseat?
I commute to work, and I rarely fly United since it is almost always UAX, which I won't fly on them ever unless absolutely necessary. I fly on Delta and sometimes AirTran. We have reciprical jump seat agreements with them, so if there are passenger seats available in the back, we fly back there. If no seats, we sit up in the cockpit jumpseat if available. There is no cost to us to jumpseat on another airline, only if we use discounted tickets on them if we are space A with family members or something.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
Might have to keep an eye out next time I'm on a 'bus flight.
