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Quote:
Originally Posted by aluminumdriver
Oh yeah, most of the time at busy airports with planes 3 miles in trail we don't do this. In order for a plane to make a 135 degree turn, they have to come to almost a stop to make it. This doesn't work with a plane right on your butt landing, so you can't do this at busy fields with lots of planes landing right behind each other. In this case, there wasn't someone close behind, so tower gave them the option to do the reverse high speed turnoff.
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AD, why do you think Air bus didn't install the fuel dumps? Seems to me that it is a safety issue if you need to return quickly instead of flying around in circles burning fuel to get light enough to land. Remember that recent C-5 that tried to make an emergency landing back east somewhere and broke in about 3 pieces? I'm wondering if they just needed to get on the ground like right now and were way too heavy......
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AD, why do you think Air bus didn't install the fuel dumps?
Because it's not needed. Aircraft have a fuel-dump system only when their max takeoff weight exceeds their max landing weight by a very large margin. This would be most common on airplanes that are designed for the very long-haul flights.
All airplanes, with or without a fuel-dump system, have the option of landing overweight. Certification standards require that the airplane can withstand a landing at 360fpm at max certified takeoff weight without incurring any damage. (At max landing weight the requirement is for a 600fpm touchdown)
Quote:
Remember that recent C-5 that tried to make an emergency landing back east somewhere and broke in about 3 pieces?
That was a mis-manged three-engine approach. After securing the engine they left the wrong (working) symetrical engine at idle and pushed the throttle of the shutdown engine forward (along with the other two good engines). That left them with power from only two engines instead of three.
In any case, I'm sure that the C5 has fuel-dump capability.
AD, why do you think Air bus didn't install the fuel dumps? Seems to me that it is a safety issue if you need to return quickly instead of flying around in circles burning fuel to get light enough to land. Remember that recent C-5 that tried to make an emergency landing back east somewhere and broke in about 3 pieces? I'm wondering if they just needed to get on the ground like right now and were way too heavy......
What LarryJ said.
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does the pilot have 100% authority to remove a passenger?
wondering if the pilot truly has full authority to remove a passenger (anyone/anytime) from a flight.
long story short, last week, we left ORD for AUS and a woman got on-board pretty tipsy. We left the gate, lined up for takeoff and we got to #1 or 2 to go.
Next thing, we u-turn back to the gate and security/agents come and remove this woman and her 'other'. I wish i knew the full details, but i was upgraded and she was back in the high rows. But all i heard was that she was being "extremely difficult". Seeing her leave the plane ... she look like Furious George, so i can only imagine.
Q: We were minutes from getting airborne. Can the pilot really do that anytime to turn around and kickoff a passenger? I can imagine if they are a legit security threat ... but what about just drunk? Or loud? or not turning off a cell phone? Is there any limit here?
Q: if you're booted off is that a Federal Crime? I almost hope so. Here i am arriving at AUS around 1:30 and exhausted after a delay and this circus on the runway. This woman i hope wasn't just removed, given a few more drinks at the bar and the next day - first flight out ... she's back on the cycle. What's the penalty for removal? I hope she went to jail, i was pretty mad at her.
Being booted off a plane is not a federal crime. Sometimes, what you do to get yourself booted off a plane can be a federal crime, but merely being kicked off is not. Simple reason: you are not the one performing an action when you get kicked off the plane. The airline is.
You can only be (successfully) charged with a crime when you do (or fail to do) something.
wondering if the pilot truly has full authority to remove a passenger (anyone/anytime) from ........)
The pilot in command, just as the Captain of a ship, remains the final arbiter on decisions to remove passengers (or to takeoff). Obviously, he may be removed from command by the airline, but short of that step....
As for us "oldsters", we would stop at the door to the cockpit, and request formal permission of the PIC to enter, just as on a ship we would ask of the Captain (or the Officer of the Deck in absence of the captain): "Request permission to come on the Bridge, Sir
Q: We were minutes from getting airborne. Can the pilot really do that anytime to turn around and kickoff a passenger? I can imagine if they are a legit security threat ... but what about just drunk? Or loud? or not turning off a cell phone? Is there any limit here?
IIRC, the CW is that if they are that "difficult" during boarding/taxi... they could become more difficult at 25000 ft.
Better to deal with it on the ground.
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How often do airports change up their flight arrival patterns (assuming good weather)? The reason I ask is because a couple of my main airports seem to have switched over the years.
1. SEA - I could swear that for a number of years, most of my SEA arrivals were from the South. Now it seems that 100% of the arrivals go up north of the city and turn Southbound for arrival.
2. ORD - This is longer ago, but I seem to remember more West Cost flights arriving from the West, but now it seems like the vast majority of ORD arrivals are from the East over Lake Michigan or from the North.
Is my memory flawed, or did these airports make significant flight arrival changes? (Maybe we need an ATC Controllers thread? )
wondering if the pilot truly has full authority to remove a passenger (anyone/anytime) from a flight.
long story short, last week, we left ORD for AUS and a woman got on-board pretty tipsy. We left the gate, lined up for takeoff and we got to #1 or 2 to go.
Next thing, we u-turn back to the gate and security/agents come and remove this woman and her 'other'. I wish i knew the full details, but i was upgraded and she was back in the high rows. But all i heard was that she was being "extremely difficult". Seeing her leave the plane ... she look like Furious George, so i can only imagine.
Q: We were minutes from getting airborne. Can the pilot really do that anytime to turn around and kickoff a passenger? I can imagine if they are a legit security threat ... but what about just drunk? Or loud? or not turning off a cell phone? Is there any limit here?
Q: if you're booted off is that a Federal Crime? I almost hope so. Here i am arriving at AUS around 1:30 and exhausted after a delay and this circus on the runway. This woman i hope wasn't just removed, given a few more drinks at the bar and the next day - first flight out ... she's back on the cycle. What's the penalty for removal? I hope she went to jail, i was pretty mad at her.
Hello,
Yes, the Captain is pilot in command and can have someone removed. As folks have said, better to have it done on the ground versus have an airborne problem.
If you interfere with a flight crew, you can be charged and fined by the govt. Just being removed from a flight is not a crime. You may lose money in the process, but you wouldn't be charged with a crime. I have seen this too many times unfortunately.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
How often do airports change up their flight arrival patterns (assuming good weather)? The reason I ask is because a couple of my main airports seem to have switched over the years.
1. SEA - I could swear that for a number of years, most of my SEA arrivals were from the South. Now it seems that 100% of the arrivals go up north of the city and turn Southbound for arrival.
2. ORD - This is longer ago, but I seem to remember more West Cost flights arriving from the West, but now it seems like the vast majority of ORD arrivals are from the East over Lake Michigan or from the North.
Is my memory flawed, or did these airports make significant flight arrival changes? (Maybe we need an ATC Controllers thread? )
ATC can change up arrivals at times. I don't recall any new arrival changes per se at those airports though. You would only come in on the West arrival if you were coming in from the West or Southwest. If you have been flying more routes to the East, then you would be seeing more arrivals coming in over the lake. If you are coming in from the West coast, weather not withstanding, you wouldn't go out to the East for their arrival.
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These views are my own and do not represent the views of United Airlines or the ALPA.
1. SEA - I could swear that for a number of years, most of my SEA arrivals were from the South. Now it seems that 100% of the arrivals go up north of the city and turn Southbound for arrival.
Is my memory flawed, or did these airports make significant flight arrival changes? (Maybe we need an ATC Controllers thread? )
I'm not a pilot, don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but maybe I can shed a little light about SEA.
SEA only has two runways, 16L/34R and 16C/34C (16R and 34L under construction).
I've had the opposite experience that you've had. I can't remember the last time I landed on 34 (from the south). Mostly because when I fly into SEA, it has always been afternoon or evening.
It's usually around 11am that the pattern will switch to takeoff and landings on 16. A private pilot told me awhile ago it's called the "Bay Route" (presumably from that view of downtown and Elliott Bay when landing to the south).
The approach to 16, I believe, is to basically go up Lake Washington, make a u-turn (if you're coming in from the south or east) at Husky Stadium, then intercepting the 16 localizer.
Tis why when I fly into SEA, I usually trade the view of Mount Rainier on the left side for the view of downtown Seattle and the water on the right side of the aircraft.
Sorry for the threadjack...I thought this might help.
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