That pilot lied when he said Ch9 was "broken." I can't imagine you would expect people to just go along with that, right?
You're right, I don't like that he lied. But neither do I really care for "post flight action" for that kind of "crap" and reporting the pilots to UA. What if I wanted it on as the F/O, but the captain turned it off, and you approached me with that attitude?
Perhaps I don't expect you to understand, and you're certainly welcome to your opinion, and I will have mine. My only point is that after reading posts like that my whole attitude on channel 9 starts to sour... take it for what it's worth.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpfs
You're right, I don't like that he lied. But neither do I really care for "post flight action" for that kind of "crap" and reporting the pilots to UA. What if I wanted it on as the F/O, but the captain turned it off, and you approached me with that attitude?
Perhaps I don't expect you to understand, and you're certainly welcome to your opinion, and I will have mine. My only point is that after reading posts like that my whole attitude on channel 9 starts to sour... take it for what it's worth.
I don't understand the problem here. The captain lied. As I have stated many times in this thread, I will just not tolerate being lied to, especially when I'm a paying customer, and especially when the person lying is the pilot with whom I trust with my safety and well being. And when it happens, I will report it. It baffles me that people will just accept that, just as it baffles me that pilots turn off Ch9 because of the labor issues.
What's sad is that I always thought airline pilots were one of the last groups of trustworthy people out there - people that could be counted on, even if I never saw them, I knew they were up in the front of the plane and doing a great job. When I hear about examples like this...the trust starts to disappear for me. It's just very sad that it has come to this.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinryan
I don't understand the problem here.
Well, in cases such as this, I've found that the reason people lie even about things they could just say is their choice is because they've gotten flak for making that choice in the past. I'm not condoning lying, but perhaps the captain had, in the past, said that he chooses not to turn on Ch.9... and then gotten some irate customers berating him for leaving Ch.9 off "for no good reason." After such exchanges, perhaps this captain thought it would be easier to just say it's broken so that he wouldn't be "to blame" for Ch.9 being off. Of course, the reaction is much worse when it's discovered that the captain was lying... and as I said, I don't condone that behavior... but perhaps that was the mentality behind it.
Ryan, I know you ask politely why Ch.9 was off (as you've posted in the past), and I know that you respect "captain's discretion" if that's the answer you receive... but perhaps not everyone does, leading many captains who choose to leave Ch.9 off wondering why they even have to justify themselves to customers who don't appreciate that it's their choice, and eventually just lying to save the bother of having to make such explanations. It's not right, I don't like it, but there are unfortunately too many jerks out there who ruin things for the rest of us.
Of course, the correct response would be to take the high road and simply say that it's the captain's choice, and that's that... ignoring people who can't accept that response. Lying is really the worse option, since it leaves a much worse impression if/when discovered. But, I can understand that some pilots just have no more patience (whether that's excusable or not).
Quick question here, sorry if it's already been answered.
Is there anything prohibiting UA from REQUIRING that channel 9 be kept on at all times except in emergency situations?
You're right, I don't like that he lied. But neither do I really care for "post flight action" for that kind of "crap" and reporting the pilots to UA. What if I wanted it on as the F/O, but the captain turned it off, and you approached me with that attitude?
Perhaps I don't expect you to understand, and you're certainly welcome to your opinion, and I will have mine. My only point is that after reading posts like that my whole attitude on channel 9 starts to sour... take it for what it's worth.
The "crap" is lying, no one likes being lied to. I don't think anyone championed the idea of "post flight action" for captains that choose to leave it off and if someone did my guess is there would be no recourse as it is after all at their discretion. I would also guess that lying to customers is not. Slopes tend to get slippery after awhile, people may start to wonder just what else they're not telling the truth about. I don't see how someone having a very natural and common reaction to being lied to sours one's attitude to anything, except perhaps dishonesty.
Quick question here, sorry if it's already been answered.
Is there anything prohibiting UA from REQUIRING that channel 9 be kept on at all times except in emergency situations?
My guess is their union would scream bloody murder.
What's sad is that I always thought airline pilots were one of the last groups of trustworthy people out there - people that could be counted on, even if I never saw them, I knew they were up in the front of the plane and doing a great job. When I hear about examples like this...the trust starts to disappear for me. It's just very sad that it has come to this.
I find it very sad that your evaluation of my performance, and the trust you place in us, comes down to whether or not we choose to flip a single switch in the cockpit. I can tell you there is no correlation between the best captains and the ones who choose to use channel 9.
What I have a problem with is your confrontational attitude if it's off. It's the captain's choice whether it's on or not, and if it's off, then don't let it bother you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan182
I don't think anyone championed the idea of "post flight action" for captains that choose to leave it off and if someone did my guess is there would be no recourse as it is after all at their discretion.
Really? How do you read this? In jest?
Quote:
We stood around the gate for a while just chatting, and actually were going to wait for Captain D***o to get off so we could tell him how we felt about his lack of accessibility.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpfs
I find it very sad that your evaluation of my performance, and the trust you place in us, comes down to whether or not we choose to flip a single switch in the cockpit. I can tell you there is no correlation between the best captains and the ones who choose to use channel 9.
What I have a problem with is your confrontational attitude if it's off. It's the captain's choice whether it's on or not, and if it's off, then don't let it bother you.
. I do not think it is appropriate to confront a pilot or F/O after the fact, attitude or no attitude. I am a fan of Channel 9, and think its fine to ask about it before hand, either directly or through a FA, but after the flight, I agree, let it go. Very little good is likely to come out of it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpfs
I find it very sad that your evaluation of my performance, and the trust you place in us, comes down to whether or not we choose to flip a single switch in the cockpit. I can tell you there is no correlation between the best captains and the ones who choose to use channel 9.
What I have a problem with is your confrontational attitude if it's off. It's the captain's choice whether it's on or not, and if it's off, then don't let it bother you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanfordhokie
. I do not think it is appropriate to confront a pilot or F/O after the fact, attitude or no attitude. I am a fan of Channel 9, and think its fine to ask about it before hand, either directly or through a FA, but after the flight, I agree, let it go. Very little good is likely to come out of it.
Obviously, there has been a lot of misinterpretation here.
I would advocate post-flight action only because the pilot lied about Channel 9. It was on, but when the FA asked the captain about it, he switched it off and said "Sorry, it's broken." That's my only issue with the story that dukeman related. If Channel 9 is off, fine. I won't like it, but I will go away. I won't write to UAL and say "Hey, Channel 9 was off on this flight, what gives?"
But since the captain lied about it in this case, that's where I draw a big, big, line. What kind of trustworthiness does that demonstrate?
The pilot could have just as easily told the truth and said "I don't turn on Channel 9."
And gumpfs, I don't base my evaluation of your ability to fly on whether Ch9 is on or not. I would, however, have serious doubts about your integrity if I knew you had just lied to me. Earlier in the thread, you agreed the captain lied in that case. That's the only problem I have here. I think the Ch9 thing has become so tied into the labor issues that some pilots obviously feel compelled to lie about it, allowing their integrity to be compromised in the bargain, and that's very sad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan182
The "crap" is lying, no one likes being lied to. I don't think anyone championed the idea of "post flight action" for captains that choose to leave it off and if someone did my guess is there would be no recourse as it is after all at their discretion. I would also guess that lying to customers is not. Slopes tend to get slippery after awhile, people may start to wonder just what else they're not telling the truth about. I don't see how someone having a very natural and common reaction to being lied to sours one's attitude to anything, except perhaps dishonesty.
Thank goodness, someone out there gets it.
Pilots: I won't lie to you if you won't lie to me. Let's see how that works.
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I find it very sad that your evaluation of my performance, and the trust you place in us, comes down to whether or not we choose to flip a single switch in the cockpit. I can tell you there is no correlation between the best captains and the ones who choose to use channel 9.
Trust is a very complex and very human issue. One doesn't receive trust; one earns it. And whether or not a person trusts another is completely in the perception and control of the person giving, not receiving, the trust. It doesn't "come down" to a single issue, but various issues are factors. One of the outcomes of this very human behavior is that some passengers include "does s/he embrace channel 9?" as a factor, or correlation, to their overall feeling of safety.
What I don't understand is how some pilots can't see how trust can be significantly enhanced with a simple flip of a single switch in the cockpit.
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Pilots: I won't lie to you if you won't lie to me. Let's see how that works.
I am a pilot for a major airline (not UAL). I have been following this thread for the last few days. I like the idea of CH 9 - wish my company had it. However, I am a bit surprised by the energy in this issue.
The confrontational attitudes displayed in this thread will likely result in less not more availability of Ch 9. Acussations of lying, labor actions etc. tend to create an us versus them attitude.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger/wilco
I am a pilot for a major airline (not UAL). I have been following this thread for the last few days. I like the idea of CH 9 - wish my company had it. However, I am a bit surprised by the energy in this issue.
The confrontational attitudes displayed in this thread will likely result in less not more availability of Ch 9. Acussations of lying, labor actions etc. tend to create an us versus them attitude.
Then I suggest you read post #740 a second time. That wasn't an "accusation" of lying - the pilot was lying. The FA on the flight and a UA pilot on this board agreed.
And there is a lot of energy in this issue because so many of us enjoy Channel 9 so much.
I honestly cannot understand why so many people are reading so much hostility into passengers asking pilots about Channel 9. NO ONE IS BEING CONFRONTATIONAL. Asking about it is not a confrontation, it's a question!
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![The Consolidated "Channel 9 Availability" Thread [Merged]](/forum/iconimages/united-mileage-plus/consolidated-channel-9-availability-thread-merged_ltr.gif)
. I do not think it is appropriate to confront a pilot or F/O after the fact, attitude or no attitude. I am a fan of Channel 9, and think its fine to ask about it before hand, either directly or through a FA, but after the flight, I agree, let it go. Very little good is likely to come out of it.
