A note to UA management about the value of UA employees posting on this forum.
Jul 3, 2008, 5:48 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 11,956
LH has someone who monitors the LH board.
I was in Frankfurt last year and had a tour of the LH facilities and a scrumptious lunch sponsored by LH with with questions an answers.
The thing that was really refreshing came when management talked about changes to the SEN progaram.
Obviously I am going to paraphrase here since I do not have a photographic memory.
"We have made changes in the program to reward high yield fliers. We do not need any more any more people like you (LH frequent fliers) but you are the first ones to know how to make the new rules work in your favour. You know them better than our own employees."
This was said with no malice at all and obviously not since LH paid for a 4 course meal. LH just acknowledged that their FF knew extremely well. There was also no hostility from the LH FFs present.
I was in Frankfurt last year and had a tour of the LH facilities and a scrumptious lunch sponsored by LH with with questions an answers.
The thing that was really refreshing came when management talked about changes to the SEN progaram.
Obviously I am going to paraphrase here since I do not have a photographic memory.
"We have made changes in the program to reward high yield fliers. We do not need any more any more people like you (LH frequent fliers) but you are the first ones to know how to make the new rules work in your favour. You know them better than our own employees."
This was said with no malice at all and obviously not since LH paid for a 4 course meal. LH just acknowledged that their FF knew extremely well. There was also no hostility from the LH FFs present.
Jul 3, 2008, 6:15 pm
#47
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What exactly does that mean?(and I'm not trying to be snarky here). The program was being changed to reward high yield fliers as opposed to frequent fliers?
Jul 3, 2008, 6:30 pm
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
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On the UA board, there have been several posts about how people achieved 1K for a $3K spend (not possible any more). They were frequent fliers but not useful fliers. They received more than they ever gave for status. That is what is this whole board is about.
Jul 3, 2008, 6:33 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 23,999
I have to totally disagree here. There are many on this board that do that, but that's not what FT is about, as I see it. FT is about maximizing your travel, be it full fare F on company dime or personal travel. While some do mileage runs, it's by no means a minority nor is it what FT is about, as far as I'm concerned.
Jul 3, 2008, 6:37 pm
#50
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ORD based - All opinions expressed on this forum are my own and in no way represent the views of United Airlines or its affiliates.
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Posts: 689
Oh I think UA management definitely cares what FT'ers have to say. When Alex Marren took over the Onboard Service Division recently, she spent a day at ORD getting to know some of the f/a's. She spotted my FT pin and immediately made mention of it. Something along the lines of "what interesting things you all had to say". Point is, she was very well aware of it.
Posting on here can be a slippery slope and I will not lie, I think long and hard about what I say on here knowing that management is reading. I am glad that most of you like having us here, I learn an awful lot and hope that my posts help inform. Personally no one at UA has ever said anything to me about posting on here but then I try to be respectful to both my employer as well as all of you.
Goes2Oz is absolutely correct that the majority of us love United Airlines and our customers and like to hear what you have to say, good and bad.
Posting on here can be a slippery slope and I will not lie, I think long and hard about what I say on here knowing that management is reading. I am glad that most of you like having us here, I learn an awful lot and hope that my posts help inform. Personally no one at UA has ever said anything to me about posting on here but then I try to be respectful to both my employer as well as all of you.
Goes2Oz is absolutely correct that the majority of us love United Airlines and our customers and like to hear what you have to say, good and bad.
Jul 3, 2008, 7:05 pm
#51
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA-1K-MM AA-EXP-MM
Posts: 726
Flyertalk just isn't that important
I do not believe that UA management thinks of FTers, if they think of us at all, as their "best customers." They think of us as a bunch of self-entitled, whiney b!tchers who are only interested in gaming the system for free upgrades, "compensation," cheap status and whatever else we can finagle out of the airline.
Ouch! That's a 'never-use' word! Alternate-meaning can get you in trouble! 
Jul 3, 2008, 7:35 pm
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 23,999
Similarly, even if some want to categorize this forum as a bunch of whiners that fly on cheap fares (which I think some are, but we have our fair share of GS's and high revenue passengers, which I wouldn't put into that category), there have been posts in this forum quoted in major newspapers, on news networks, etc. Clearly there's something about this forum that they care about, whatever it might be....
Just my two cents
Jul 3, 2008, 8:44 pm
#54
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ORD
Programs: HHonors Silver, UA (no status, but lots of miles!)
Posts: 465
I think United executives are aware of flyertalk but do not see much significance to it. I think that in general most flyertalkers are closer to the cheap status whiney gamers than they are to the "best customers", so it does not deserve much executive attention. With all the areas United needs to focus on and all the cuts United needs to make, I would hate for them to devote resources to FlyerTalk that could be better used to serve customers. Add a professional to the GS, 1K or customers relations desk that is empowered to help with problems rather than add a professional to this board. I agree that the employees that have volunteered their time to post to this forum are a true asset and I appreciate their contributions, but I think it should remain a volunteering of individuals. These employees that generously share non proprietary information should not become an official spokesperson as I don't think that will improve our exchange of knowledge or United's bottom line. I know this is not a popular position but it is a reasonable one given the absolutely dismal state of the US airline industry. Of course you may disagree.
UA management I think really only had issues when employees leaked confidential information that had not yet been released, which I think any employer would have an issue with...
Jul 3, 2008, 9:26 pm
#55
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I would love to work in the type of environment that Disney engenders. If you didn't read it, in the June issue of Hemispheres there was an article about Disney culture. Buy a few shares of UAUA and elect/appoint Barbara Higgins CEO. There really are so many good people at UA ... they just need to believe that their efforts will produce results. I went thru bad times at PAA, and I can't tell you how disheartning it is to work your fanny off and see nothing for it ... and I don't mean money ... I mean just seeing your efforts squandered by comments such as those made by you-know-who at the BOD meeting. It makes my stomach turn. But you know, over 38 years I have seen management come and go, each one with a new stamp on the airline, each one with out to make a mark and millions for themselves. WE will see this one pass too, so hang in there loyal UA flyers. You may not realize this, but yes, most of us love our jobs and love you, our customer. If we didn't, we wouldn't come to work.
. If you didn't read it, in the June issue of Hemispheres there was an article about Disney culture. Buy a few shares of UAUA and elect/appoint Barbara Higgins CEO. There really are so many good people at UA ... they just need to believe that their efforts will produce results. I went thru bad times at PAA, and I can't tell you how disheartning it is to work your fanny off and see nothing for it ... and I don't mean money ... I mean just seeing your efforts squandered by comments such as those made by you-know-who at the BOD meeting. It makes my stomach turn. But you know, over 38 years I have seen management come and go, each one with a new stamp on the airline, each one with out to make a mark and millions for themselves. WE will see this one pass too, so hang in there loyal UA flyers. You may not realize this, but yes, most of us love our jobs and love you, our customer. If we didn't, we wouldn't come to work.Unfortunately, it's the very nature of the "good" people that probably keeps them out of the CEO office. To rise to the top, at least so it seems in this day & age, is all about politics and watching one's back and making deals with other executives (one of the reasons compensation has gotten so out of whack). None of those things contribute to a better airline. The "good" people at higher levels are generally hired as window dressing by those who crave power & money. It makes them look like they're doing something good for the company. It's unlikely that the personality traits that might contribute to a "good" executive would lead to a long corporate life. In particular, the weakness of empathy would be taken advantage of or ridiculed, probably both, by those seeking more power.
What, me, cynical?
What has Warren Buffet said about the airline industry? Too bad he doesn't have a special fund to invest in money-losing ventures unlikely to turn around in a reasonable amount of time. It would be very interesting to see how he'd change the boardroom.
Answering my own question (Google is your friend)-
Here's what Warren Buffet had to say about the airline industry in his annual letter last March-
"Now let’s move to the gruesome. The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a
farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.
The airline industry’s demand for capital ever since that first flight has been insatiable. Investors have poured money into a bottomless pit, attracted by growth when they should have been repelled by it. And I, to my shame, participated in this foolishness when I had Berkshire buy U.S. Air preferred stock in
1989. As the ink was drying on our check, the company went into a tailspin, and before long our preferred dividend was no longer being paid. But we then got very lucky.
In one of the recurrent, but always misguided, bursts of optimism for airlines, we were actually able to sell our shares in 1998 for a hefty gain. In the decade following our sale, the company went bankrupt. Twice."
I doubt he's likely to repeat his mistakes again.
farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.
The airline industry’s demand for capital ever since that first flight has been insatiable. Investors have poured money into a bottomless pit, attracted by growth when they should have been repelled by it. And I, to my shame, participated in this foolishness when I had Berkshire buy U.S. Air preferred stock in
1989. As the ink was drying on our check, the company went into a tailspin, and before long our preferred dividend was no longer being paid. But we then got very lucky.
In one of the recurrent, but always misguided, bursts of optimism for airlines, we were actually able to sell our shares in 1998 for a hefty gain. In the decade following our sale, the company went bankrupt. Twice."
Last edited by Mike Jacoubowsky; Jul 4, 2008 at 5:05 pm Reason: clarity, answering my own question
Jul 4, 2008, 4:30 pm
#56
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Not at home
Programs: MP
Posts: 2,312
Oh I think UA management definitely cares what FT'ers have to say. When Alex Marren took over the Onboard Service Division recently, she spent a day at ORD getting to know some of the f/a's. She spotted my FT pin and immediately made mention of it. Something along the lines of "what interesting things you all had to say". Point is, she was very well aware of it.
Posting on here can be a slippery slope and I will not lie, I think long and hard about what I say on here knowing that management is reading. I am glad that most of you like having us here, I learn an awful lot and hope that my posts help inform. Personally no one at UA has ever said anything to me about posting on here but then I try to be respectful to both my employer as well as all of you.
Goes2Oz is absolutely correct that the majority of us love United Airlines and our customers and like to hear what you have to say, good and bad.
Posting on here can be a slippery slope and I will not lie, I think long and hard about what I say on here knowing that management is reading. I am glad that most of you like having us here, I learn an awful lot and hope that my posts help inform. Personally no one at UA has ever said anything to me about posting on here but then I try to be respectful to both my employer as well as all of you.
Goes2Oz is absolutely correct that the majority of us love United Airlines and our customers and like to hear what you have to say, good and bad.
Jul 4, 2008, 4:44 pm
#57
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Jul 4, 2008, 6:10 pm
#58
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Potomac MD
Programs: UA MP 1K
Posts: 7,182
Let me add my best wishes to you, UnitedSkies. I did not know that you had left UA and I am sorry for your job loss and I know that many, many posters on this board will miss you as a voice from inside UA. Best of luck in finding a new situation.
Jul 4, 2008, 8:27 pm
#59
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ORD, PDX
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Avis 1st
Posts: 284
On the UA board, there have been several posts about how people achieved 1K for a $3K spend (not possible any more). They were frequent fliers but not useful fliers. They received more than they ever gave for status. That is what is this whole board is about.
I strongly disagree. I'm far from unique in being a FT-ing business traveler - and while I'm not looking to rip off my employer or clients, neither am I going out of my way to gain/retain status on a shoestring. I think there are a bunch of people here in the same situation. Personally, reaching 1K status this year had a $14K price tag, and I am probably one of the lower yield biz travelers because I never pay for premium cabins.
Jul 4, 2008, 9:45 pm
#60
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA-1K-MM AA-EXP-MM
Posts: 726
While I think you raise some good points, is this really true? Is there really not much significance? I do have to wonder why this thread is only 24 hours old yet has over 2,000 views (which is actually not that much, we've seen plenty of threads with over 10,000 views in 24 hours). I also have to wonder why management is monitoring this website (as we know they do), yet this site isn't important to them. If FT really weren't important you'd think they would have better things to do with their time, no?
Similarly, even if some want to categorize this forum as a bunch of whiners that fly on cheap fares (which I think some are, but we have our fair share of GS's and high revenue passengers, which I wouldn't put into that category), there have been posts in this forum quoted in major newspapers, on news networks, etc. Clearly there's something about this forum that they care about, whatever it might be....
Just my two cents
Similarly, even if some want to categorize this forum as a bunch of whiners that fly on cheap fares (which I think some are, but we have our fair share of GS's and high revenue passengers, which I wouldn't put into that category), there have been posts in this forum quoted in major newspapers, on news networks, etc. Clearly there's something about this forum that they care about, whatever it might be....
Just my two cents