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Old Jun 12, 00, 7:39 am   #1
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Near-accident flight yesterday!

I flew UA #553 from OMA to DEN on 6/11.

Uneventful flight until landing......

I noticed the 757 was coming in fast and observed from my left-side window seat that we were passing up a large portion of the runway when the left main landing assembly hit the ground with a rather violent pounding. We bounced off the ground and came down on just the right main gear, bounced up again but this time, the left wing dipped dangerously close to the ground! Enough for some passengers to scream. Pilot gunned the engines and we went around for a second pass which went just fine.

Perhaps some wicked cross winds or downdraft...crew never offered any explanation; only that go-arounds happen. I guess it didn't traumatize me for life since I rushed through DEN to board my next flight.

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Old Jun 12, 00, 12:48 pm   #2
 
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MileageAddict, all I can say is Woa!! And I'm the one that prefers landings to take-offs !
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Old Jun 12, 00, 7:13 pm   #3
 
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YIKES!!
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Old Jun 12, 00, 8:44 pm   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MileageAddict:
I flew UA #553 from OMA to DEN on 6/11.

Uneventful flight until landing......

Perhaps some wicked cross winds or downdraft...crew never offered any explanation; only that go-arounds happen. I guess it didn't traumatize me for life since I rushed through DEN to board my next flight.

I know what you mean. As just a general passenger, there's always times when I get the "holy you-know-what" reaction at times during flights.

However, knowing what pilots have to do on their six month checkrides to keep flying for an airline makes me feel +much+ safer.

Any pilot that can bring in a 747-400 with two engines out on a VOR approach (like 13L at JFK) in foul weather can fly my plane anyday!

Jon
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Old Jun 13, 00, 8:23 am   #5
 
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When was a 747-400 brought in with 2 engines out?
Also - that's why a like to listen to Ch. 9 - th hear what is going on even if then captain does not announce it. I always complain if a pilot refuses to turn it on (as a few do).
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Old Jun 13, 00, 9:20 am   #6
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I imagine that he is referring to simulator training with the 747 scenario.

By the way, the saying is... any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing.
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Old Jun 13, 00, 1:09 pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ncorman:
I imagine that he is referring to simulator training with the 747 scenario.

By the way, the saying is... any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing.
Yes, that's what I meant. Here's a synopsis of a six month checkride that a 747 pilot posted on http://www.aerowinx.com. Aerowinx manufactures a PC-based 747-400 simulator that is excellent.


Just a 6-month check ride,

In MSP, after 6 month here we go again.
NW400 Heavy out of KLAX to PANC.
Wx: A Wind 180/16 Vis 2, Rain, Overcast 008 temp 32C/22C QNH 3000 Wind Shear Advisory.
T.O. RWY 24L LOOP2 DEP DAGGER transition KEEGS.
Clearance:
24L Direct PMD~J6~AVE~J1~SEA~J523~YZT~ANC~PANC.

GWT 720.000 LBS REZ 22.500 LBS
FUEL 240.000 ALT FL310
ZFW 480.000 T.O. CLMB
C.I. 250 T.O. FLAPS 20 CG 23%.

1)Abort TO before V1 due to WS.

2)Second TO with WS at 200 Ft for recovery procedures, wheel well fire, decided not to dump because uncontrollable fire in progress. Landing at max t.o. wt.

3)Autoland with the above scenario at cat II min.

4)Another TO with engine failure after V1, vectors for LOC APP in VNAV to minimums.

5)Normal TO, climb to 10K speed 280 steep turns, stalls ( DEP stall and CLEAN stall, recovery @ first indication). Go for a VOR APP with a hold at FAF for only 10 Min and a LNDG with 25 Kts X-wind.

6)An x-wind TO at 20 Kts, Departure stall (Gear down, flaps 20, at 15 deck angle Pull power to 50% and bank 20 degrees). At first indication recover.

7)And the last one TO with 600/600/600 RVR, V1 cut, at 50 Ft 2 nd engine out with uncontrollable fire. Return to the airport for landing, Wx miraculously is VFR but no ILS LOC VOR. Just asked the F/O for rwy extension and set VNAV and LNAV for arrival.


And, from a major airline's operating manual (note the tolerances at the end):


Preflight check
FMS proceedures
Rejected takeoff
Normal takeoff, instrument, crosswind
Takeoff with engine failure
Terminal area departure and arrival
Steep turns
Approach to stalls
Holding
Non-precision approach
Rejected landing and missed approach
Normal ILS, autocoupled or flight director
Engine inoperative ILS, flight director
Two missed approaches
Normal landing with crosswind
Landing from an ILS
CAT I approach to a manual landing
Engine inoperative landing
50% power landing
Abnormal flap approach and landinf, visual

Also for CAT ll and CAT lll Certification:
Normal ILS, autoland to cat lll minimums
ILS one engine inop flight director approach to cat ll minimums and a missed approach
ILS autocoupled approach to cat ll minimums with coupled missed approach from very low altitude
First officer duties during cat lll approaches

PC ars similar:
Preflight
FMS proceedures
Rejected take off
Takeoff with engine failure after V1 and before V2 (max togw)
Normal ILS, one engine inop, autoland to cat lll minimums
Normal ILS, one engin inop, autocoupled to cat lll minimums with coupled missed approach from very low altitude
Normal ILS Flight director to cat l minimums with autothrottle and autopilot off, to a missed approach
Non precision approach
At least two landings.

The check must include at least six of the following:

Takeoff at minimum visibility
Rejected landing
Engine inop landing
Visual landing with crosswind(> 20 kts) and turbulence
Hyd system failure
Engine fire/failure
Inflight thrust reverse
EEC in alternate mode
Cargo fire
Icing
Loss of ALL engines
Loss of all generators
Instrument failures
Flaps/L.E. device/flightr control problem
DME arc transition
Non precision approach (second)
Creq incapacitation
Evacuation
Jammed stab landing
Electrical problems
Pressurization problems
Fuel system problems
APU fire/irregularities
Autoland malfunctions
IRS fault.failure
GPWS warnings/failure
Door warning indications
Stalls (takeoff, maneuvering or landing)
50% porwe landing
Windshear on takeoff or landing

Tolerences:

(+ -)
Take off, hdg 5 deg, airspeed 5 kts alt 100 ft

Takeoff with eng failure, hdg 10 deg, 5 kts, 0 sink before level off

Terminal area, hdg 10 deg, 10 kts, 100 ft

Steep turns, bank 45 degrees +- 5 airspeed 10 kts alt 100 ft Roll out hdg 10 deg

Hand flown ils, LOC 1/2 dot, GS 1 dot, airspeed 5 kts

Non precision appch, + 50 ft, - 0 ft, 5 kts 1/2 dot (vor/loc) 5 deg (NDB bearing)

Missed app, heading 5 deg, airspeed 5 kts livel off 100 ft. (heading 10 deg with engine out

Landing touchdown within TD zone

One of the nore challenging things is the steep turn.
(No autothrottles).
45 degrees of bank, 280 kts.
(Hint use the vert speed indicator and pitch angle. Pitch is 2 1/2 wings level, and 3 1/2 with 45 degree bank.


These guys and gals are GOOD!!!


[This message has been edited by jskiffington (edited 06-13-2000).]
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Old Jun 13, 00, 2:25 pm   #8
 
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Those are killer tolerances. The 747 is a very heavy airplane which is none to quick in responding to throttle changes.

Without autothrottle on those steep turns you really need to coordinate your thottle back with your roll-out, or else you will screw up on the altitude and airspeed tolerances.
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Old Jun 13, 00, 2:53 pm   #9
 
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Last week, we were flying SEA-DEN and had kind of an exciting landing. We happened to be in row 2, behind some non-uniformed UA pilots (they seemed pretty junior, maybe commuter). When we were about 500 feet off of the ground, we had a sharp downpressure. The pilot gunned the engines and was able to land normally, although it made everyone gulp. The worst part was probably the pilots in front of us imitating the cockpit computer voice, "wind shear! wind shear!" as it happened.
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Old Jun 13, 00, 9:54 pm   #10
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From everything I have watched on commercial air travel, things that make passengers on edge are usually well within the physical operating limits of the aircraft. Think of the landings an F14 carrier fighter pilot must do...has to go from aprox 180knts to 0 in 200ft, cross winds, runway is pitching up and down, runway is moving, must land at full throttle, and at night...at 3 miles out, the runway resembles a lightning bug on your windshield!
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