UA840 to LAX causes major emergency scare at SYD - forced to return to airport
Jul 28, 2004, 9:50 am
#76
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Originally Posted by Swiss Tony
OK, i'm struggling to decide how the UA captain should have responded, but perhaps the blame culture that is prevelant in the US (and becoming increasingly so elsewhere) is part of the issue. However, I still don't understand why they declared a full emergency at SYD (That's probably the busiest airport in the southern hemisphere, no?) for what was clearly a marginal decision!
The UA captain is at fault for having overreacted (turning around), but the SYD authorities are at fault for having adopted the American lunacy of "hoping to make an example of someone," as Bruce aptly mentioned. Sadly, the Australian authorities detained everyone while they interviewed them (the pax finally left around 9:00 pm despite having landed around 6:00 pm.
They weren't so interested in preventing a bomb explosion (neither was the captain), they were hellbent on arresting someone. For that lunacy, the Ozzie airport officials/police/authorities deserve the same lambasting the UA captain deserves.
Jul 28, 2004, 10:04 am
#77
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But who mandated the interrogation (for want of a better word) of the pax? I seem to recall that when BA had to delay a heap of LHR-IAD flight at the start of the year, this was a US request.
I was also on a UA flight from LHR-SFO at Christmas. Someone who had been selecetd for secondary managed to avoid the second check. This was only noticed once everyone was onboard. Accoring to the FA's, FAA requirements meant everyone (incl. the flight crews) had to deplane, airbridge withdrawn, a/c had to be searched and the person who missed the secondary re-screened.
From my limited experience, it seems that the process for secondary for UA deps ex LHR has since changed, but it was still interesting to see that it was an FAA "requirement"...
I was also on a UA flight from LHR-SFO at Christmas. Someone who had been selecetd for secondary managed to avoid the second check. This was only noticed once everyone was onboard. Accoring to the FA's, FAA requirements meant everyone (incl. the flight crews) had to deplane, airbridge withdrawn, a/c had to be searched and the person who missed the secondary re-screened.
From my limited experience, it seems that the process for secondary for UA deps ex LHR has since changed, but it was still interesting to see that it was an FAA "requirement"...
Jul 28, 2004, 10:29 am
#78
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I suppose when the flight attendant brought to the captain's attention the barf bag with the supposed "message" on it, the captain could have said, "That doesn't mean anything to me. We're continuing to Los Angeles." Would that have demontrated inappropriate recklessness? I don't think so.
Bruce
Bruce
Jul 28, 2004, 10:41 am
#79
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They weren't so interested in preventing a bomb explosion (neither was the captain), they were hellbent on arresting someone. For that lunacy, the Ozzie airport officials/police/authorities deserve the same lambasting the UA captain deserves.
Last edited by Fredd; Jul 28, 2004 at 2:17 pm Reason: typo
Jul 28, 2004, 1:57 pm
#80
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While I am inclined to think that the reaction on the ground may have been overblown, I totally support the captain's decision simply because that was his decision. A captain would have to do something obviously reckless to make me think otherwise.
I find it curious that this event is now put down to a hoax. Is this a way of diverting suspicion from the possibility that it was, in fact, a false alarm? Or is there tangible reason to think it really was a hoax? If so, is an investigation continuing? Does anybody know?
I find it curious that this event is now put down to a hoax. Is this a way of diverting suspicion from the possibility that it was, in fact, a false alarm? Or is there tangible reason to think it really was a hoax? If so, is an investigation continuing? Does anybody know?
Jul 28, 2004, 5:04 pm
#81
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Checking in for brief Trip Report UA840/9793.
Just got home from this flying experience, and of course the first place I go is FT!!! Any other FlyerTalkers on 840/9793?
Having been on the flight, and having talked to FAs, ground crew, and the detectives investigating the incident, here's what I found out: The bag was found in the C lav in front of row 22 on the right. It was not there prior to the flight, and was found by an FA who went in to wash her hands.
Other pax noticed that the crew were doing some serious searching around that lav and the surrounding overheads just prior to and after the turnaround announcement. I was in the upper deck with full view of the cockpit doors, and there was nothing going on upstairs at all. (Until they told everyone to remain seated and only by special request could one use the lav. Then after each person came out, an FA would check the lav, including opening the waste bin, etc.)
Pax WERE informed of threat and that we were returning to SYD, although we were not told what kind of threat or how it was delivered. It was rather obvious that something was amiss - since the sun was suddenly on the other side of the plane, the map showed the plane had turned around, and after an obvious descent we were zipping along 500mph at 14,000ft. The turnaround was so subtle that I didn't notice, nor did anyone else I talked to. That and the fuel dump which was reported to be quite spectacular... and which was also announced by the Captain.
I actually didn't think to look, but aren't the barf bags on UA dark blue? How dark would the writing have to be to see it on a dark blue bag? (The sanitary bags kept in the lav, however, are white.) They kept us at in the terminal for nearly 3 hours and bomb-dogs sniffed our carry-ons, but some of us found it rather odd that they didn't take handwriting samples... although the next day they had us all fill out forms with our names, seat numbers, and whether or not we noticed anything on the flight. Maybe that was the handwriting sample/fingerprinting… so, yes, the investigation is continuing. They were even continuing to question people on 9793 just minutes prior to departure.
Hoax, maybe... But if it was a mistake – as in it being someone writing their name, a friends’ name, or the “Babe on Board” thing – then why hasn’t someone come forward to say so??? If it was a deliberate hoax, then that’s one thing, but if someone left it there and it was meaningless, why not mention it to someone?
I have to think that the Captain was cognizant of the ramifications of all courses of action, and that the decision to go back was not made lightly.
There’s more, but I really need to take a hot bath and a nap. Happy travels!
JetBunny
PS - I didn't know until yesterday that Krispy Kremes were available in Australia.
Just got home from this flying experience, and of course the first place I go is FT!!! Any other FlyerTalkers on 840/9793?
Having been on the flight, and having talked to FAs, ground crew, and the detectives investigating the incident, here's what I found out: The bag was found in the C lav in front of row 22 on the right. It was not there prior to the flight, and was found by an FA who went in to wash her hands.
Other pax noticed that the crew were doing some serious searching around that lav and the surrounding overheads just prior to and after the turnaround announcement. I was in the upper deck with full view of the cockpit doors, and there was nothing going on upstairs at all. (Until they told everyone to remain seated and only by special request could one use the lav. Then after each person came out, an FA would check the lav, including opening the waste bin, etc.)
Pax WERE informed of threat and that we were returning to SYD, although we were not told what kind of threat or how it was delivered. It was rather obvious that something was amiss - since the sun was suddenly on the other side of the plane, the map showed the plane had turned around, and after an obvious descent we were zipping along 500mph at 14,000ft. The turnaround was so subtle that I didn't notice, nor did anyone else I talked to. That and the fuel dump which was reported to be quite spectacular... and which was also announced by the Captain.
I actually didn't think to look, but aren't the barf bags on UA dark blue? How dark would the writing have to be to see it on a dark blue bag? (The sanitary bags kept in the lav, however, are white.) They kept us at in the terminal for nearly 3 hours and bomb-dogs sniffed our carry-ons, but some of us found it rather odd that they didn't take handwriting samples... although the next day they had us all fill out forms with our names, seat numbers, and whether or not we noticed anything on the flight. Maybe that was the handwriting sample/fingerprinting… so, yes, the investigation is continuing. They were even continuing to question people on 9793 just minutes prior to departure.
Hoax, maybe... But if it was a mistake – as in it being someone writing their name, a friends’ name, or the “Babe on Board” thing – then why hasn’t someone come forward to say so??? If it was a deliberate hoax, then that’s one thing, but if someone left it there and it was meaningless, why not mention it to someone?
I have to think that the Captain was cognizant of the ramifications of all courses of action, and that the decision to go back was not made lightly.
There’s more, but I really need to take a hot bath and a nap. Happy travels!
JetBunny
PS - I didn't know until yesterday that Krispy Kremes were available in Australia.
Jul 28, 2004, 6:52 pm
#82
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Originally Posted by JetBunny
Hoax, maybe... But if it was a mistake – as in it being someone writing their name, a friends’ name, or the “Babe on Board” thing – then why hasn’t someone come forward to say so??? If it was a deliberate hoax, then that’s one thing, but if someone left it there and it was meaningless, why not mention it to someone?
Don't know if this at all addresses your question, but if they didn't tell passengers anything about the nature of the problem while in the air, then just possibly some might be reluctant to pipe up and say, once in Oz, "oh gee, I just wrote BOB on the bag," thereby 'fessing up to causing delays to hundreds and many thousands in costs.
Cheers,
Fredd
Last edited by Fredd; Jul 28, 2004 at 6:53 pm Reason: typo
Jul 28, 2004, 9:20 pm
#83
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I don't think it was a hoax, I think it was a complete non-event. The only reason a bag with writing on should have aroused any kind of suspicion or concern would be if it was sticky-taped to the mirror, or otherwise prominently displayed, in an obvious attempt to have someone find it and be alarmed. There are no reports that was the case, though reports are still contradictory in the press/media.
I hope they charge UA compensation for this, as it was a complete overreaction and someone should pay for it.
As for someone owning up to writing on the bag - get real! Not after that over-reaction. Some poor schmuck was probably just sitting on the dunny trying to puzzle out that last piece of the crossword: B _ _ 0_ B
As for little Johnny Howard, give him a break - he was probably only told that the plane turned back due to a bomb threat - in which case prudence would have been the best course of action.
A number of people have commented that they were surprised the plane wasn't immediately evacuated. It has been a long time since I worked at the airport but I believe SOP would have been to evaluate the threat first before allowing anyone off - afterall the BOB could have been trigerred by opening a door, or it could have been strapped to someone, or .... That evaluation would have taken a while. (In this case people had to stop rolling round the floor laughing when they found out what was behind it all.)
The emergency services and airport management probably appreciated the exercise - now they can charge someone else for training expenses.
I hope they charge UA compensation for this, as it was a complete overreaction and someone should pay for it.
As for someone owning up to writing on the bag - get real! Not after that over-reaction. Some poor schmuck was probably just sitting on the dunny trying to puzzle out that last piece of the crossword: B _ _ 0_ B
As for little Johnny Howard, give him a break - he was probably only told that the plane turned back due to a bomb threat - in which case prudence would have been the best course of action.
A number of people have commented that they were surprised the plane wasn't immediately evacuated. It has been a long time since I worked at the airport but I believe SOP would have been to evaluate the threat first before allowing anyone off - afterall the BOB could have been trigerred by opening a door, or it could have been strapped to someone, or .... That evaluation would have taken a while. (In this case people had to stop rolling round the floor laughing when they found out what was behind it all.)
The emergency services and airport management probably appreciated the exercise - now they can charge someone else for training expenses.
Jul 28, 2004, 11:39 pm
#84
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JetBunny - incredible a few 100 folks on this whole earth are on that plane and one is a FT'er! Amazing odds of that happening!
Thanks for the great first hand report. Glad it was only a hoax and no-one got hurt.
As to posts above about compensation - I heard on TV a figure of $500,000 mentioned today. Very expensive barf bag if that checks out.
Thanks for the great first hand report. Glad it was only a hoax and no-one got hurt.
As to posts above about compensation - I heard on TV a figure of $500,000 mentioned today. Very expensive barf bag if that checks out.
Jul 29, 2004, 12:32 am
#85
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But with UA in chapter 11, will any fine stick (or is this the sort of thing that would be covered by some liability insurance???)
Jul 29, 2004, 12:53 am
#86
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Originally Posted by ozstamps
JetBunny - incredible a few 100 folks on this whole earth are on that plane and one is a FT'er! Amazing odds of that happening!
Oh, and I just checked - they deducted SWUs for BOTH flights.
Sucks to waste a SWU on such a short flight... especially since on the re-booking I didn't get my original seat that I quite liked. I *will* be arguing that deduction. So next question is, do we also get the miles for the 3-hour turnaround tour???
Jul 29, 2004, 2:40 am
#87
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Originally Posted by JetBunny
PS - I didn't know until yesterday that Krispy Kremes were available in Australia.
Anyhoo, I would drive the 60 minutes each way just to stock up on original glazed. They freeze really well. Also, when friends flew in from out of town I'd suggest a trip to the Blue Mountains. Of course, I did have an ulterior motive.
Now we have four stores in Sydney, with one at Kingsford Smith airport.
All we need is In & Out anchored next door and we'll be set.
Jul 29, 2004, 5:29 am
#88
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Originally Posted by Latitudes
Now we have four stores in Sydney, with one at Kingsford Smith airport.
Jul 29, 2004, 9:22 am
#89
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JetBunny, thanks for the report. FT is such a treasure.
I asked in a post yesterday about this incident still being called a hoax. Today's Guardian reports that the Australian government has admitted that it "might have been based on a misunderstanding, but praised the pilot's quick response."
I asked in a post yesterday about this incident still being called a hoax. Today's Guardian reports that the Australian government has admitted that it "might have been based on a misunderstanding, but praised the pilot's quick response."
Jul 29, 2004, 9:46 pm
#90
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Originally Posted by Latitudes
Penrith is out west on the outskirts of Sydney. Real redneck country, at the base of the Blue Mountains.
