MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
#767
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat/2MM [23-yr. 1K, now emeritus] clawing way back to WN-A List; MR LT Titanium; HY Whateverist.
Posts: 12,394
To follow up on what my co-moderator expressed in post 3, I only wished you had joined our Community and sought advice before deciding to offer an airline cert. for sale. Our members could have previewed UA's reaction on this issue: swift and certain.
#768
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 4
UA has zero tolerance for selling / barter of it upgrade certs.
If is clearly stated in the MileagePlus program rules
You are not the first GS to have their account closed for this, as well as other elite levels.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...it-advice.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ud-misuse.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-recourse.html
If is clearly stated in the MileagePlus program rules
You are not the first GS to have their account closed for this, as well as other elite levels.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...it-advice.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ud-misuse.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-recourse.html
I have since read the terms and conditions, and understand. However, there is still a loyalty factor that i would feel come into play, as I have shown a great deal of loyalty as a customer for many years. Surely, in today's competitive world, an organization would look a bit deeper at the situation and see that an act of ignorance which was an isolated event, and then remediated quickly would be something to consider when affecting a customer with this type of commitment to their brand.
#769
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Thank you.
I have since read the terms and conditions, and understand. However, there is still a loyalty factor that i would feel come into play, as I have shown a great deal of loyalty as a customer for many years. Surely, in today's competitive world, an organization would look a bit deeper at the situation and see that an act of ignorance which was an isolated event, and then remediated quickly would be something to consider when affecting a customer with this type of commitment to their brand.
I have since read the terms and conditions, and understand. However, there is still a loyalty factor that i would feel come into play, as I have shown a great deal of loyalty as a customer for many years. Surely, in today's competitive world, an organization would look a bit deeper at the situation and see that an act of ignorance which was an isolated event, and then remediated quickly would be something to consider when affecting a customer with this type of commitment to their brand.
#770
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,756
Thank you.
I have since read the terms and conditions, and understand. However, there is still a loyalty factor that i would feel come into play, as I have shown a great deal of loyalty as a customer for many years. Surely, in today's competitive world, an organization would look a bit deeper at the situation and see that an act of ignorance which was an isolated event, and then remediated quickly would be something to consider when affecting a customer with this type of commitment to their brand.
I have since read the terms and conditions, and understand. However, there is still a loyalty factor that i would feel come into play, as I have shown a great deal of loyalty as a customer for many years. Surely, in today's competitive world, an organization would look a bit deeper at the situation and see that an act of ignorance which was an isolated event, and then remediated quickly would be something to consider when affecting a customer with this type of commitment to their brand.
While understanding you may have not realized the serious of your infraction (in the airline's eyes), the certs T&Cs as are the program T&Cs are clear -- this is an area the airlines take extremely serious.
Trying to explain to the airlines why they should not do this will be fruitless. Perhaps apologizing and accepting the outcome and then hoping to start anew might work. BTW, I would be very surprised if the airline did not share this sort of information.
#771
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Mileage Plus Global Services 2MM
Posts: 1,200
Understand your point, but UA has a 0 tolerance policy. If they gave you any different consideration they risked others they dealt with in the same fashion coming back against them for reconsideration. It stinks but it is what it is.
#772
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,991
It wasn't benign if you were looking to sell. Not sure what "haste" has to do with the action taken.
Another airline may certainly benefit from your move from UA, but don't look for any better treatment if you willfully decide to be ignorant of the rules presented to you in the next program - it really doesn't take that much time (versus the potential loss and the time/$ you're committing) to look at the terms and conditions.
The actions of others (eg, sellers on eBay) are not necessarily evidence of what is right.
Another airline may certainly benefit from your move from UA, but don't look for any better treatment if you willfully decide to be ignorant of the rules presented to you in the next program - it really doesn't take that much time (versus the potential loss and the time/$ you're committing) to look at the terms and conditions.
The actions of others (eg, sellers on eBay) are not necessarily evidence of what is right.
#774
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Easy to identify OP. He had an eBay seller account and UA corporate security works closely with EBay and other outlets. UA asked eBay for the seller information and got it. Matched it to OP and that is the end of the game.
UA has all of the information OP supplied and some of the bids were likely made by "undercover" UA corporate security people. Half of the certs sold on eBay are likely being sold by UA "undercover" to catch fraudsters and the other half are being bid on by those same folks.
Forget about notice and past loyalty. Those are customer service issues and this is about fraud detection & prevention. UA, just like AA & DL, takes this seriously, spends a lot of money to detect it, and deals with it swiftly and harshly when they find it.
While UA has not quite fired OP as a customer, it has come close. While it is doubtful that UA will change its position, the only thing to be done here is to send a written apology which makes absolutely no excuses whatsoever. Don't bother with terms such as "benign" or "haste" as those are meaningless and the actions here were neither of those. Forget about Munoz, that was a big mistake in the first place and it is not as though a real person actually saw that email before it was forwarded to Security.
You could try the same again in 3-4 years if this fails.
In the meantime, consider AA or DL and stick to the rules.
UA has all of the information OP supplied and some of the bids were likely made by "undercover" UA corporate security people. Half of the certs sold on eBay are likely being sold by UA "undercover" to catch fraudsters and the other half are being bid on by those same folks.
Forget about notice and past loyalty. Those are customer service issues and this is about fraud detection & prevention. UA, just like AA & DL, takes this seriously, spends a lot of money to detect it, and deals with it swiftly and harshly when they find it.
While UA has not quite fired OP as a customer, it has come close. While it is doubtful that UA will change its position, the only thing to be done here is to send a written apology which makes absolutely no excuses whatsoever. Don't bother with terms such as "benign" or "haste" as those are meaningless and the actions here were neither of those. Forget about Munoz, that was a big mistake in the first place and it is not as though a real person actually saw that email before it was forwarded to Security.
You could try the same again in 3-4 years if this fails.
In the meantime, consider AA or DL and stick to the rules.
#775
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 4
#776
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,756
#777
formerly bulgarianfreak55
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: United 1K, Marriott Platinum, SPG Platinum, Hertz Pres
Posts: 142
Thanks @Often1, makes sense. I didn't realize ebay is allowed to give out information like that.
OP, I'd try as said above, admit what you did and perhaps plead to get something back (ability to us MP Program again, miles, status). 1 or all 3. Perhaps even say they can keep all your upgrades as penalty, half your miles ,etc. Tell them you love flying with them, and really want the opportunity to continue doing it.
OP, I'd try as said above, admit what you did and perhaps plead to get something back (ability to us MP Program again, miles, status). 1 or all 3. Perhaps even say they can keep all your upgrades as penalty, half your miles ,etc. Tell them you love flying with them, and really want the opportunity to continue doing it.
#778
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,955
I would suggest you send a PM to UA Insider, who is UA's official representative on this board. I'm not sure how often UA Insider checks PM's, or what kind of authority s/he has to cut through this sort of bureaucracy, but it's probably your best hope for some form of mercy.
In your PM, be very apologetic, express remorse, do not make any excuses, and do not drone on about your years of loyalty and status. Ask if your Mileage Plus account can be restored in good standing with a promise to never, ever, ever do anything like that again. If UA Insider is willing to go to bat for you, do not expect any of your miles or your 1K status to be restored. If you're lucky, maybe they will be, or you'll get something back.
In your PM, be very apologetic, express remorse, do not make any excuses, and do not drone on about your years of loyalty and status. Ask if your Mileage Plus account can be restored in good standing with a promise to never, ever, ever do anything like that again. If UA Insider is willing to go to bat for you, do not expect any of your miles or your 1K status to be restored. If you're lucky, maybe they will be, or you'll get something back.
#779
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Thanks @Often1, makes sense. I didn't realize ebay is allowed to give out information like that.
OP, I'd try as said above, admit what you did and perhaps plead to get something back (ability to us MP Program again, miles, status). 1 or all 3. Perhaps even say they can keep all your upgrades as penalty, half your miles ,etc. Tell them you love flying with them, and really want the opportunity to continue doing it.
OP, I'd try as said above, admit what you did and perhaps plead to get something back (ability to us MP Program again, miles, status). 1 or all 3. Perhaps even say they can keep all your upgrades as penalty, half your miles ,etc. Tell them you love flying with them, and really want the opportunity to continue doing it.
#780
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: AA
Posts: 14,716
On the AA board (and AA typically is the most aggressive towards this issue), the general advice once your account has been locked is to fess up, apologize profusely, promise not to do it ever again, and honestly answer any questions they may have of you. Then you might get your account reopened with only a loss of miles, etc. If at any time you are seen as not being honest, trying to hide something, rude, accusatory towards them, etc, you have no hope. And even if you are polite, up front, honest, and promise to never do it again, it's only a chance that they will reopen the account. Basically the airline holds all the cards in this and in their eyes it is no longer a customer service issue but a corporate security issue.
To the OP, if you haven't already profusely apologized and admitted your error directly to corporate security, then you should try that. If you have, and still been told no, then I would give up as you aren't going to change minds. Look into using other programs, flying other airlines, but don't repeat your error with other airlines.
To the OP, if you haven't already profusely apologized and admitted your error directly to corporate security, then you should try that. If you have, and still been told no, then I would give up as you aren't going to change minds. Look into using other programs, flying other airlines, but don't repeat your error with other airlines.