mozilla

I checked EF's historical fares tool and couldn't find any A-fare filed for the GJT-LGA marked on UA. Now I don't know OP's ticketing date, I would need to know that to make any definitive conclusions.

What I did find, however, were fares that book into A, but there were 2 distinct kinds:

* The "/UPDI" fares, for example, "BAA0AFEY/UPDI" which books into A. They are marked as "ECONOMY RESTRICTED" fares. The fare rules indicate that these fares "APPLY FOR FIRST/BUSINESS/PREMIUM ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE." So they clearly do not exclude being offered Economy Class service.
* Genuine premium cabin fares, for example, "BAA0AFFY" which books into A. They are marked as "FIRST CLASS SELL-UP" fares. The fare rules indicate that these fares "APPLY FOR FIRST/BUSINESS CLASS SERVICE." So these fares clearly exclude Economy Class service.

Based on this information, I cannot concur that the "/UPDI"-fare "entitles the passenger to an F seat" because none of the documentation of that fare actually excludes Economy Class service (although I'm pretty sure the marketing says differently). The non-"/UPDI" fare does, however, suggest that it is an exclusive premium cabin fare. It is clear that "/UPDI" fares differ from non-"/UPDI" fares, otherwise there was no need to mark them differently and there would be no need for different fare rules.

Hipplewm

If you read the wiki at the top of the page downgrade is a 2 part equation

1. You get a set amount of money for number of miles the flight entails
2. You get the refund you are talking about

You get both, not either or, or what the agent feels like on a tuesday etc, you are entitled to both

How much is a question for each flight on each day etc, but intl F and J fares will obviously be where the difference has the potential to be the highest.

If you are talking buying a Y/B/M and getting n upgrade as Y-up, then fine, but we are talking UPDI fares which have nothing to do with buying a Y/B/M fare and getting an upgrade.....

lincolnjkc

Y/B-UPs are clearly identified as an upgrade
/UPDIs are not.

Even searching for a an unrestricted F fare via UA.com you're more likely than not -- at least for domestic travel -- to get a /UPDI (except the couple trips to North Dakota where the fare basis was FUA -- incidentally, how I was feeling when they had to bump me over to AA and downgrade to Y [single cabin aircraft both segments] due to "maintenance") -- at every major point in the sales process it is represented as a premium cabin fare, and the fare rules are at best ambiguous (they "apply" to Economy travel but also premium cabin which is what I requested).

Calling anything in A P or F an upgrade is an unreasonable interpretation.

(And I have also had UA reroute me on AA in F on a /UPDI when the only space available on UA to get me where I was going was in Y and I "declined" the downgrade... No major resistance at all just a "are you really sure you don't want to take a middle seat in the back of a 737 when we can get you a F window on AA?")

mozilla

Sure, I agree. /UPDI fares even *require* premium cabin inventory at the time of booking.

But that's the thing, my interpretation of the fare rules is that /UPDI fares only entitle the traveler to a confirmed premium cabin seat at the time of booking. In the case of IRROPS, they do no longer offer such entitlement IMHO.

Now to be sure, no fare (not even the "FUA"-fare) actually entitles a traveler to a premium cabin seat during IRROPS, so it's only the "downgrade" element that we are talking about here. I totally agree that a "downgrade" occurs at the moment that a traveler, holder of a "FIRST CLASS SELL-UP"-fare which exclusively applies for service in a premium cabin, is moved to a non-premium cabin. But is it still considered a "downgrade" if said traveler is the holder of an "ECONOMY RESTRICTED"-fare and is moved to a cabin that is still part of the cabin service that that fare applies to?

If you think it is, I would also like to know 1) your reasoning behind why UA is selling both "FIRST CLASS SELL-UP"-fares with exclusive Premium Cabin access while also selling "ECONOMY RESTRICTED"-fares which include non-exclusive Premium Cabin access on the exact same market 2) how you think those fares then actually differentiate 3) if travelers on both fares should receive the same priority treatment in case of IRROPS which require class downgrades.

Here is the relevant CoC-passage:

findark

Yes, it is.

This is a comparatively recent development, and I am guessing it's an algorithmic mistake. Note that the fares printed /UPDI (a) are the same price as the -F- scale fares, (b) cannot be auto-priced because of this.

They don't.

They are premium fares and travelers on either should be treated accordingly. The point of differential fares is price discrimination, not some obscure "this is not a First Class fare" gimmick. Issues around that are an edge case and UA isn't addressing it more forcefully because it's not a common issue.

adamzook

My wife and I flew OGG-LAX-DEN and cleared both upgrades via Upgrade with Miles for the LAX-DEN segment about ~T-48. We got to OGG and had our boarding passes printed and were both still in 5A and 5B in First. Upon arrival at LAX I checked the app and noticed that she had been moved to 10F and had completely disappeared from the Upgrade list. Since her ticket still said 5B we (mistakenly) just let it roll rather than going to the counter to see if there were any issues.

Upon boarding, sure enough she had been moved and was told to go to the counter for her new ticket. At the counter she was told that the seat was sold as a revenue booking and that she'd be first to move up if anyone didn't make the fight, even though she wasn't on the upgrade list any longer. They apologized and gave her a $500 voucher and told her all of the points we have put down would be credited back (they have not been after 48 hrs.)

To add to the frustration there were two United employees in First Class and the flight was not completely full, my wife had an open seat next to her in E+.

While the $500 and supposed miles credit is appreciated we still have a pretty sour taste in our mouth as a result of this. Any suggestions or experiences to draw on for how we address this with United would be most appreciated.

(FWIW I'm Silver and she is Member and we were originally booked on the same itinerary (L Class.))

TonyBurr

Sorry for this disruption. People will criticize you for saying that there were two UA employees in First. They will argue that employees never are upgraded before pax (LOL, LOL) or that they deserved to be in First rather than a pax.

bmw303

I understand your frustration, and would be too, but what are you looking for?

IMHO your compensation was very generous ($500 + apology + miles refund) and so if I were you, I would not feel that any additional compensation was due.*

Regarding the employees - there are several reasons why they might have been there, some of which would be entirely legitimate and part of the contract . . . so again, there is likely no basis for complaint there, unless you have evidence that rules were violated.


* I am under the impression that any co-pay would also be refunded. If that was not done, then yes, I would argue you should get that back as well, even though the $500 voucher was generous for downgrade compensation.

HNLbasedFlyer

That is a bit shortsighted - there are employees (pilots) who contractually must have a first class seat available.

bmw303

^

BlissWorld

Not at all. For every employee who legitimately/contractually sits in first class, another 5 sit there because of their GA buddies. It happens and that's a fact.

bmw303

I highly doubt that employees would risk their jobs to offer $500 vouchers to upgrade coworkers on domestic flights. I am sure it happens from time to time, but to upgrade a coworker, downgrade a passenger, and then issue $500 in compensation? Again possible but unlikely.

qukslvr619

Well the criticism surrounds whether the employees were in uniform and if not how did the OP know they were employees, or they were positive space and confirmed in advance, and even whether they were UA employees and not other airlines that were commuting but on a paid ticket. An employee just can't jump the upgrade queue.

And its not a matter of whether they deserved to be there rather than a passenger but whether someone is contractually guaranteed the seat vs someone who paid for coach and upgraded. I'm sorry but all these horror stories of people saying they are being downgraded for someone who the agent told them was a) more important, b) paid more, c) wore a blue shirt...the agents may not have the best skills in dealing with the scenario but I also think stuff is lost in the exchange.

qukslvr619

Fact or FT folklore? Maybe on DL, but I've yet to see it on UA which might be the actual positives of SHARES; even within the ranks of nonrevs they really can't clear someone out of order. That's not to say that it cannot occur but the instances of it happening at UA are minimal....if I'm wrong I'd love to see the facts that prove this.

mduell

The UA staff may have been contractually obligated to F seats, and UA cares way more about their contract than your upgrade.

That's the bare minimum UA should be offering, per their own policy (GG DOWNGRADE).