United Airlines President: Leaving New York’s JFK ‘Was the Wrong Decision’ {2017}
#31
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It takes 19 minutes on the LIRR from Jamaica Airtrain Station to Penn Station. It's only a few dollars more than the E train.
Part of the difficulty with EWR, as others have mentioned, is if you are not going to take public transit. EWR originating cabs to the city aren't cheap with the trans-Hudson tolls. I live in Brooklyn, and I avoid EWR like the plague. A cab or car service easily runs $80-100, plus the concerns of tunnel traffic make it a risky option. Also, the train connections aren't particularly convenient unless you're going to Penn Station or willing to hop on the PATH to downtown. For me to get to Brooklyn by train from EWR is: Airtrain to NJ Transit to Midtown and a long subway ride to BK or Airtrain to NJ Transit to PATH to shorter subway ride. JFK to Brooklyn is a $35 car service.
Part of the difficulty with EWR, as others have mentioned, is if you are not going to take public transit. EWR originating cabs to the city aren't cheap with the trans-Hudson tolls. I live in Brooklyn, and I avoid EWR like the plague. A cab or car service easily runs $80-100, plus the concerns of tunnel traffic make it a risky option. Also, the train connections aren't particularly convenient unless you're going to Penn Station or willing to hop on the PATH to downtown. For me to get to Brooklyn by train from EWR is: Airtrain to NJ Transit to Midtown and a long subway ride to BK or Airtrain to NJ Transit to PATH to shorter subway ride. JFK to Brooklyn is a $35 car service.
#32
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It takes 19 minutes on the LIRR from Jamaica Airtrain Station to Penn Station. It's only a few dollars more than the E train.
Part of the difficulty with EWR, as others have mentioned, is if you are not going to take public transit. EWR originating cabs to the city aren't cheap with the trans-Hudson tolls. I live in Brooklyn, and I avoid EWR like the plague. A cab or car service easily runs $80-100, plus the concerns of tunnel traffic make it a risky option. Also, the train connections aren't particularly convenient unless you're going to Penn Station or willing to hop on the PATH to downtown. For me to get to Brooklyn by train from EWR is: Airtrain to NJ Transit to Midtown and a long subway ride to BK or Airtrain to NJ Transit to PATH to shorter subway ride. JFK to Brooklyn is a $35 car service.
Part of the difficulty with EWR, as others have mentioned, is if you are not going to take public transit. EWR originating cabs to the city aren't cheap with the trans-Hudson tolls. I live in Brooklyn, and I avoid EWR like the plague. A cab or car service easily runs $80-100, plus the concerns of tunnel traffic make it a risky option. Also, the train connections aren't particularly convenient unless you're going to Penn Station or willing to hop on the PATH to downtown. For me to get to Brooklyn by train from EWR is: Airtrain to NJ Transit to Midtown and a long subway ride to BK or Airtrain to NJ Transit to PATH to shorter subway ride. JFK to Brooklyn is a $35 car service.
#33
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This is exactly the point. They sold the slots too cheap (at least in cash terms - you could argue that the real value was to be connected with tieing up EWR) and the price has gone up since then. However asset prices go up and go down - my guess is that they will wait for a dip in prices (someone else pulling out, perhaps) and buy in again.
#34
Join Date: Apr 2011
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A return to JFK would be a mistake according to his own admission unless capital costs (including the need for more aircraft) plummet.
#35
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I live in Chelsea and feel the same way. Most of my travel out of JFK/LGA is with OPM so I'm in a cab about 90% of the time. Every cab I've taken from EWR has ended up as a hassle. I've excluded EWR from every personal trip flight search for as long as I can remember because of the annoyances. I also haven't flown UA metal since the 90's so maybe they should stay out at EWR so my JFK flight delays don't get any worse.
#36
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Like I said. If that's the reason why a return isn't worth it, which is reasonable, that means JFK was a marginal operation at best on the overall bottom line. That makes his blanket "wrong move" statement very suspicious. If an operation is only worth the capital already placed into it, then it's not lucrative and worthy to be cut.
#37
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I said "overall bottom line", which means the entire network. Again, if every factual statement he says is correct, that means JFK was only worth the capital already invested. That's actually an admission that JFK was worthy to be cut. At that point it's a sunk cost scenario (except for the aircraft and some equipment and employees which can be reallocated), and the only question that needs to be answered is if higher returns can be found by moving capital elsewhere.
#38
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The "admission" was that JFK was important to big corporate accounts that fly a lot across the network. So, if they lost $10M a year on JFK, but those accounts contributed $100M overall profit across the network, they lost $90M getting out and losing those account.
At this point they probably have to sleep in the bed they've made, since going back to JFK means buying slots, getting real estate , building a polaris lounge, etc.
At this point they probably have to sleep in the bed they've made, since going back to JFK means buying slots, getting real estate , building a polaris lounge, etc.
#39
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Leaving New York’s JFK "Was the Wrong Decision"...
What a coincidence: that's exactly what I said on my UA post-flight survey asking about my p.s. EWR->SFO in March.
As a once/twice a year "P" fare customer on this route, I've never run an airline but, esp. coming back to pick up p.s. from Brooklyn or W. Conn., there's no question which terminal is easier and quicker to get to: JFK. And while JFK has some serious traffic issues getting to/from, so can EWR.
Once one gets to JFK, the customer experience is infinitely better in so many aspects: signage, check-in, TSA Pre check, distance between TSA or baggage claim and the gate/UC Club, avoiding the hordes of people in poorly designed piers in this mega-plex which EWR is, helpfulness of UA staff, etc., etc.
Only Q. I have is: when is UA returning p.s. to JFK??
What a coincidence: that's exactly what I said on my UA post-flight survey asking about my p.s. EWR->SFO in March.
As a once/twice a year "P" fare customer on this route, I've never run an airline but, esp. coming back to pick up p.s. from Brooklyn or W. Conn., there's no question which terminal is easier and quicker to get to: JFK. And while JFK has some serious traffic issues getting to/from, so can EWR.
Once one gets to JFK, the customer experience is infinitely better in so many aspects: signage, check-in, TSA Pre check, distance between TSA or baggage claim and the gate/UC Club, avoiding the hordes of people in poorly designed piers in this mega-plex which EWR is, helpfulness of UA staff, etc., etc.
Only Q. I have is: when is UA returning p.s. to JFK??
#40
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What assessment did I make? oh, that's right, I didn't offer one.
"We?" Who else are you speaking on behalf of?
How do you have better evidence than the current president of United?
"We?" Who else are you speaking on behalf of?
How do you have better evidence than the current president of United?
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 21, 2017 at 12:04 pm Reason: Quote updated to reflect Moderator edit
#42
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Decidedly not $20, but keep trying.
There is one river crossing from any of the three airports to Manhattan. If you're crossing more than one bridge or tunnel you're doing it wrong.
#43
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Can someone here tell me which *A carriers and other partners use EWR and which ones use JFK? Furthermore, are there AC flights to/from LGA?
#44
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Why would I blame UA for that? I wasn't flying UA when it happened.
It's simply one of the (big) reasons why I choose to avoid EWR: it's expensive, inconvenient, takes forever to get there and back, and, IMO, it's a pit of an airport.
It's simply one of the (big) reasons why I choose to avoid EWR: it's expensive, inconvenient, takes forever to get there and back, and, IMO, it's a pit of an airport.
#45
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But the LIRR offers much more frequent service than NJ Transit, especially on the weekends and at off hours. I almost never bother checking the LIRR schedule, I know there will always be a train in 10-15 minutes. With NJT, it can be 40+ minutes between trains sometimes.
I used to be a die-hard CO traveler, and as an Upper West Side resident, it wasn't hard to justify that EWR wasn't really that bad to get to.
But there are just more (reasonable) options to get to/from JFK. It's easy to avoid the tolls, especially at off-hours. Even taxis are fine in a pinch, in either direction. Nobody in their right mind should take a taxi to Manhattan from EWR! And good luck finding one to take you there from Manhattan...
Last edited by ijgordon; Apr 21, 2017 at 9:29 am