Disruptive Passenger / Safety Issue - worth reporting?
Apr 20, 2017, 9:00 pm
#16
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SFO South Bay
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 3,052
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...t-Exposure.htm
And yes, most states do require people convicted of indecent exposure to register as sex offenders. So the statement is valid.
But, yeah, I did have a giggidy moment reading this one!
Apr 20, 2017, 9:30 pm
#18
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta Metro
Programs: DL , AC, BA, Hhonors Diamond, IH Platinum, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,352
I particularly like the scolding and specific instructions on what UA needs to do to address this. It's kind of schoolmarm-ish, but I like it. 
Apr 20, 2017, 9:43 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Traveling the World
Posts: 6,072
I had an interesting flight recently, where a intoxicated lady was all over the first class cabin (with her dog), ignoring instructions for most of the flight. The cabin crew didn't intervene or control the cabin.
TL;DR, am I over-reacting, or is this an actual safety and passenger experience issue that I should be reporting?
===== The Flight, As I have written in a *yet undelivered* letter to United =====
There were a series of serious incidents on my flight involving a female passenger (XXX, X) in seat XX (First Class) who was flying on an upgraded ticket. This passenger was clearly inebriated (and admitted to being both drunk and on Xanax), and was being loud, vulgar, inappropriate (nudity), and was repeatedly ignoring crew member instructions and was out of her seat during multiple critical phases of flight (turbulence, approach, final approach, landing, taxiing). These are serious and dangerous violations that were not dealt with by the cabin crew.
This passenger had a service animal which was not properly controlled during the flight after several crew member instructions. (14 CFR 121.317 (k) )
The passenger was loud, and continued to speak profanity and sexual explicit language to two passengers behind her, audible from at least 4 rows away.
The passenger left her seat during turbulence (seatbelt sign on) to attempt to give a lap dance to the customer in XX. (14 CFR 91.107 (3), 14 CFR 121.317 (f) ).
The passenger removed her seatbelt multiple times during descent, and during final approach (the literal final leg to RWY 16L, after the left-traffic base leg was completed) stood up, and while straddling both seats (the next seat - which was empty, and hers) proceeded to flash the passengers behind her. The plane included children so I consider this a sex-offender worthy offense. (14 CFR 91.107 (3) ). The cabin crew reminded all passengers via the PA system to stay in their seat and the passenger did not comply (14 CFR 121.317 (k) ).
The entire time, the flight attendant crew (there was one trainee) was unwilling to confront or control this passenger. The flight crew did serve this passenger two “alcoholic” drinks, however the passenger in XX (Nearby) said that she overheard that they were without alcohol. If the drinks did contain alcohol, this is a clear violation of 14 CFR 121.575 b.1 .
The cabin was not under control, and had we encountered wind shear or any issues on final approach for Denver Runway 16L, there would have been serious bodily injury to the passenger in XX as well as any nearby passengers. This lack of control is completely unacceptable - especially for a cabin crew training flight. At a minimum, the following should be required:
- A review of the failed procedures on this flight.
- Additional flight crew training to handle situations like this for the specific flight crew.
- The disruptive passenger in XX (XXX, X) being barred from all future United or United Express Flights.
- Apologies sent to the passengers in the first class cabin and Economy Plus for the complete disregard for their safety and civility of the aircraft cabin.
This incident has left me fearful that United does not control the safety of their aircraft. I am incredibly concerned that after the April 9th 2017 incident, United may be too cautious when dealing with passengers. For the sake of crew and passenger safety, United Airlines and operators (including SkyWest) are required - by law - to maintain control of the passengers in the aircraft cabin.
I expect and demand better and safer flight operations from United and United Express. With the appropriate attention to this issue, I’m sure we can together keep flying the safest that it has ever been.
===== My Question =====
I sent an abbreviated version to United via united.com/feedback and have yet to hear an answer (2 days later). I was considering mailing this writeup to the following:
- Customer Care, United Airlines, Inc.
- Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings, Aviation Consumer Protection Division
- SkyWest Airlines
Any thoughts? Other than being an entirely embarrassing and awkward flight for everyone (I hope none of the kids were up in E+), nobody was injured. I'm just pretty upset that the crew did nothing and let this unacceptable behavior continue for the entire flight, including while we were touching down.
TL;DR, am I over-reacting, or is this an actual safety and passenger experience issue that I should be reporting?
===== The Flight, As I have written in a *yet undelivered* letter to United =====
There were a series of serious incidents on my flight involving a female passenger (XXX, X) in seat XX (First Class) who was flying on an upgraded ticket. This passenger was clearly inebriated (and admitted to being both drunk and on Xanax), and was being loud, vulgar, inappropriate (nudity), and was repeatedly ignoring crew member instructions and was out of her seat during multiple critical phases of flight (turbulence, approach, final approach, landing, taxiing). These are serious and dangerous violations that were not dealt with by the cabin crew.
This passenger had a service animal which was not properly controlled during the flight after several crew member instructions. (14 CFR 121.317 (k) )
The passenger was loud, and continued to speak profanity and sexual explicit language to two passengers behind her, audible from at least 4 rows away.
The passenger left her seat during turbulence (seatbelt sign on) to attempt to give a lap dance to the customer in XX. (14 CFR 91.107 (3), 14 CFR 121.317 (f) ).
The passenger removed her seatbelt multiple times during descent, and during final approach (the literal final leg to RWY 16L, after the left-traffic base leg was completed) stood up, and while straddling both seats (the next seat - which was empty, and hers) proceeded to flash the passengers behind her. The plane included children so I consider this a sex-offender worthy offense. (14 CFR 91.107 (3) ). The cabin crew reminded all passengers via the PA system to stay in their seat and the passenger did not comply (14 CFR 121.317 (k) ).
The entire time, the flight attendant crew (there was one trainee) was unwilling to confront or control this passenger. The flight crew did serve this passenger two “alcoholic” drinks, however the passenger in XX (Nearby) said that she overheard that they were without alcohol. If the drinks did contain alcohol, this is a clear violation of 14 CFR 121.575 b.1 .
The cabin was not under control, and had we encountered wind shear or any issues on final approach for Denver Runway 16L, there would have been serious bodily injury to the passenger in XX as well as any nearby passengers. This lack of control is completely unacceptable - especially for a cabin crew training flight. At a minimum, the following should be required:
- A review of the failed procedures on this flight.
- Additional flight crew training to handle situations like this for the specific flight crew.
- The disruptive passenger in XX (XXX, X) being barred from all future United or United Express Flights.
- Apologies sent to the passengers in the first class cabin and Economy Plus for the complete disregard for their safety and civility of the aircraft cabin.
This incident has left me fearful that United does not control the safety of their aircraft. I am incredibly concerned that after the April 9th 2017 incident, United may be too cautious when dealing with passengers. For the sake of crew and passenger safety, United Airlines and operators (including SkyWest) are required - by law - to maintain control of the passengers in the aircraft cabin.
I expect and demand better and safer flight operations from United and United Express. With the appropriate attention to this issue, I’m sure we can together keep flying the safest that it has ever been.
===== My Question =====
I sent an abbreviated version to United via united.com/feedback and have yet to hear an answer (2 days later). I was considering mailing this writeup to the following:
- Customer Care, United Airlines, Inc.
- Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings, Aviation Consumer Protection Division
- SkyWest Airlines
Any thoughts? Other than being an entirely embarrassing and awkward flight for everyone (I hope none of the kids were up in E+), nobody was injured. I'm just pretty upset that the crew did nothing and let this unacceptable behavior continue for the entire flight, including while we were touching down.
While I fully agree that the passenger was acting dangerously with Xanax and Alcohol why was he/she allowed to board, and in flight was he/she denied alcohol or cut off? If the Flight attendant saw that the passenger was having a medical condition then why wasn't the flight attendant made aware and taken care of it at the time?
While you are concerned how would United ban the passenger from all United/United Express flights if the TSA/Police and Flight Crew/Duty Manager were not involved at the time? At least future training can be done but other than that I am not sure what they can do even if you gave them the seat#.
Please keep us posted.
Apr 20, 2017, 11:37 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
You are not over-reacting.
DOT does not have jurisdiction over in-flight security incidents.
Apr 21, 2017, 2:59 am
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
The references to various regulations makes you sound a bit like the hall monitor, so maybe tone that down a bit. Nevertheless, I think you should send the letter, but as noted above, I wouldn't expect much more than 'thanks for letting us know, the safety of our passengers is our top concern."
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 21, 2017 at 1:44 pm Reason: unneeded comment removed
Apr 21, 2017, 7:00 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silicon wasteland
Programs: UA 1KMM
Posts: 1,381
I'm not.
1. GA didn't bother to notify the pax of the upgrade, so sat blissfully unaware in row 21.
2. The GA *did* bother to notify the pax of the upgrade, saw the nutter in 1A and returned blissfully to row 21 to enjoy the ride along with the comped snack box.
1. GA didn't bother to notify the pax of the upgrade, so sat blissfully unaware in row 21.
2. The GA *did* bother to notify the pax of the upgrade, saw the nutter in 1A and returned blissfully to row 21 to enjoy the ride along with the comped snack box.
Apr 21, 2017, 7:18 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: UA 1K; *G, AA Plat
Posts: 1,700
In regards to the disruptive passenger leaving her seat when the seatbelt sign is on / during descent....
What are the rules for FA in this case? I could see that all they could do was talk on the PA system, if they got up from their seat, wouldn't they be in violation as well as risking their own life if extreme turbulence occurred? For liability purposes, I would understand if the PA system was the only course of action they could undertake.
Or is there a rule that they are required to forcibly restrain passengers who don't comply with stated procedures?
What are the rules for FA in this case? I could see that all they could do was talk on the PA system, if they got up from their seat, wouldn't they be in violation as well as risking their own life if extreme turbulence occurred? For liability purposes, I would understand if the PA system was the only course of action they could undertake.
Or is there a rule that they are required to forcibly restrain passengers who don't comply with stated procedures?
Apr 21, 2017, 7:57 am
#27
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: AA Plat, UA 1K>Plat>moving to Silver
Posts: 2,089
Apr 21, 2017, 8:43 am
#28
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LAS
Programs: 1K---2,909,450 BIS miles
Posts: 214
IMO!
I wouldn't do a thing. Let them wallow in their unrestrained ignorance!
These folks already have ALL the answers. If you don't believe me, wait until you get your reply, if you do!
They're attitude is going to be that your letter is just gonna cause them more work, and right now they've got their hands full manufacturing a plan as to whom they get to kick of a plane.
...and btw being in DEN makes you a prime target for the "We'll show you who's runnin' the show, around here", SELF ANOINTED - GET EVEN CROWD !
I wouldn't do a thing. Let them wallow in their unrestrained ignorance!
These folks already have ALL the answers. If you don't believe me, wait until you get your reply, if you do!
They're attitude is going to be that your letter is just gonna cause them more work, and right now they've got their hands full manufacturing a plan as to whom they get to kick of a plane.
...and btw being in DEN makes you a prime target for the "We'll show you who's runnin' the show, around here", SELF ANOINTED - GET EVEN CROWD !
Apr 21, 2017, 8:53 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: CO
Programs: UA OG-1K, Marriott Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,360
The passenger left her seat during turbulence (seatbelt sign on) to attempt to give a lap dance to the customer in XX. (14 CFR 91.107 (3), 14 CFR 121.317 (f) ).
Apr 21, 2017, 9:01 am
#30
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: UA Plat, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 677
What the heck was wrong with your phone? If there ever was a time to record something on video, this was it. Not only would you be an instant Youtube sensation, but UA would be much more likely to respond. Their response would be moronic, but at least they would respond.
And in the grand scheme of things, this was a pretty good UA flight experience. Unless you leave the flight in handcuffs, bloodied, or requiring a hospital stay, it is a good flight. Everything else is just icing on the cake. You really need to adjust your expectations. It's not like you are flying Delta or something.
And in the grand scheme of things, this was a pretty good UA flight experience. Unless you leave the flight in handcuffs, bloodied, or requiring a hospital stay, it is a good flight. Everything else is just icing on the cake. You really need to adjust your expectations. It's not like you are flying Delta or something.