Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
The United Moderator team:
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l'etoile
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WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#2536
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 514
I've seen video of actual disruptive passengers being removed, and the rest of the plane is cheering their removal so they can get on their peaceful way.
This video clearly shows the rest of the plane is horrified by the events that took place.
UA had a clear customer service issue, and instead of finding a customer service solution, they hid behind their CoC and "must obey all crew member instructions"
That works great when they are removing people for the safety and security of the other passengers and crew...this is clearly not this.
So even if UA was contractually and legally within their authority to have the passenger removed, the way they went about it was so ham handed and authoritarian, that they've basically abdicated their legal authority.
If I jaywalk, and instead of the cop writing me a ticket, decides to wrestle me to the ground and drag me to the cop car, he went too far. Did I break the law, yes, but did the punishment fit the crime?
This video clearly shows the rest of the plane is horrified by the events that took place.
UA had a clear customer service issue, and instead of finding a customer service solution, they hid behind their CoC and "must obey all crew member instructions"
That works great when they are removing people for the safety and security of the other passengers and crew...this is clearly not this.
So even if UA was contractually and legally within their authority to have the passenger removed, the way they went about it was so ham handed and authoritarian, that they've basically abdicated their legal authority.
If I jaywalk, and instead of the cop writing me a ticket, decides to wrestle me to the ground and drag me to the cop car, he went too far. Did I break the law, yes, but did the punishment fit the crime?
#2537
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
I understand that is the case in many places, however, in this case, I don't think these one's are. I looked at the website for the job. Seems to get the job, pass a background check, simple (quick) training and work with the Chicago PD for police matters. (And these guys do not have guns per the website.)
#2538
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
That storyline about United has stuck for years, even before the merger (which seems to have blended the worst of both carriers: CO's regional arrogance plus UA's customer-as-enemy mindset).
The video -- and without the cell phone video, this is no story -- just crystallizes that whole storyline. Legalities and nuance don't count in the court of public opinion. Violence against its own passengers can be seen, in that context, as a natural progression for United.
I get that Oscar's afraid of his own employees. No CEO in 30+ years has been able to tame them. I don't get that he threw the assaulted passenger under the bus to pre-emptively reassure his workers, many of whom are saboteurs undermining the company. His internal email is catastrophic.
#2539
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Outside of moves ordered by the captain, or for specific safety reasons, the FAs are NOT allowed to move people around. (For smaller jets it could affect weight and balance, and thus, is reserved fro the captain or ground crew.) That responsibility is spelled out in the various union contracts.
The captain decides who to boot off a plane for safety reasons, such as unruly passenger. AFAIK this never happened.
The captain decides who to boot off a plane for safety reasons, such as unruly passenger. AFAIK this never happened.
#2540
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: AA ex-EXP, 2MM (ex DL, ex TWA)
Posts: 1,427
Another Twitter classic: "UA -We put the hospital in hospitality”.
#2541
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,745
If I'm IDB'ing I want cash. Not a voucher or a cheque - cash.
#2542
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: UA Gold, AA DL
Posts: 25
Usually when an obnoxious, intoxicated pax is dragged out, other pax applaud and thank law enforcement. They beat an elderly Asian man bloody and limp and dragged him out. Most pax in video are horrified. That is telling.
Your anecdotes don't matter in this case. Plenty of pax are justifiably escorted out of the aircraft. That doesn't change the fact that UA could've avoided having to use cops in the first place.
I'm not a lawyer. But I'm pretty sure the PR backlash is over your second question.
Your anecdotes don't matter in this case. Plenty of pax are justifiably escorted out of the aircraft. That doesn't change the fact that UA could've avoided having to use cops in the first place.
I'm not a lawyer. But I'm pretty sure the PR backlash is over your second question.
I'm basically only pointing out that if the crew asks you to leave, you need to leave or face ejection.
Could they have given him more money? sure. could they have maybe selected another passenger randomly after this guy went bonkers? maybe? will they and the airport police be sued? probably. is this guy looking at a big settlement? probably.
#2543
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: LBB
Programs: UA 1K 1MM ★G | Marriott LTT | Hilton ♦ | Hertz PC | Global Entry TSA Pre ✓
Posts: 2,820
They have the right to deny boarding, but that does not imply the right to forcibly remove a person from the plane who has already boarded. We'll probably get to see how a judge and jury defines the word "boarding", but any plain reading of that word (including how the gate agents use it) means entering the aircraft--maybe even the jetbridge given that the "boarding" happens at the scanner--and taking one's seat.
The video I saw made it quite clear how his face got bloody--it came into contact with the armrest after the LEO's handling of him resulted in a loss of physical control. There was the beginnings of bleeding when they were dragging him (when his glasses were displaced), and it continued to bleed, spilling out of his mouth.
As to property owners having the right to eject trespassers, well, not so fast. This man had a right to be there, and was indeed invited to be there. He was not doing anything to cause the airline to rescind that invitation except being high up on a list he was never shown. What the pax heard was "random" even if that is not what was said. He had no expectation of being forcibly removed from the airplane, so of course he is going to stand his ground. The airline is not someone's living room, and the man was not loitering. They have provided a public accommodation for which he paid and was invited to use.
The video I saw made it quite clear how his face got bloody--it came into contact with the armrest after the LEO's handling of him resulted in a loss of physical control. There was the beginnings of bleeding when they were dragging him (when his glasses were displaced), and it continued to bleed, spilling out of his mouth.
As to property owners having the right to eject trespassers, well, not so fast. This man had a right to be there, and was indeed invited to be there. He was not doing anything to cause the airline to rescind that invitation except being high up on a list he was never shown. What the pax heard was "random" even if that is not what was said. He had no expectation of being forcibly removed from the airplane, so of course he is going to stand his ground. The airline is not someone's living room, and the man was not loitering. They have provided a public accommodation for which he paid and was invited to use.
#2544
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,099
wrong. They can't do nothing. We are a society based on rules. If you do not follow them there are consequences. I'd rather know there are officers out there protecting the people than live in a society where there are no effective law enforcement. I have traveled the world to many 3rd world countries and the safety I feel here in the US is something I would never give up.
that said that safety and freedom of speech has given rise to everyone's holier than thou additide where "you can't do this to me!"
that said that safety and freedom of speech has given rise to everyone's holier than thou additide where "you can't do this to me!"
#2545
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: LHR, HKG
Programs: gate lice
Posts: 315
United will lose market share in/from China. Full stop. And possibly in the US. I am Delta Diamond and often wonder whether to switch to United. I've now made my decision and won't look back on the matter for many years.
CEO needs course correction, not just employees in question.
CEO needs course correction, not just employees in question.
Think about a country like Japan, where the delay for a major train line is measured in seconds. The fact that UA failed to plan ahead for their 4 deadheading crew members is embarrassing on the organizational level.
Or Korean nut rage. The CEO went on TV and bowed publicly. Now compare that reaction to Oscar's dismissiveness.
This does nothing but further the impression that U.S. customer service culture is rotten. In a lot of countries, flag carriers and airlines are regarded highly as informal representatives of said country. What does this say about the U.S.?
#2546
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Global
Programs: United 1K, Qatar Gold, Etihad Gold, Hilton Diamond, InterCon RA, PC Plat, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,453
The CEO blew it. He should have taken the pax side and blamed the LEO - saying he is outraged that a United customer was treated this way
#2547
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: AP
Posts: 50
I have to say thanks to this asian guy for fight back. Otherwise airline will lower and lower their rewards and use more and more force to cut their cost and suck more blood.
#2548
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Well, he'd be IDB'd so it wasn't his assigned seat anymore. We don't know if he was asked to move by the pilot or FAs, but it is certainly possible one or more of them approached the passenger at some point and asked him to cooperate.
My comment was more in the context that there were ticketed passengers standing and it was the FA's responsibility to place them in a seat before door closure, which would require the IDB'd passenger to deplane.
My comment was more in the context that there were ticketed passengers standing and it was the FA's responsibility to place them in a seat before door closure, which would require the IDB'd passenger to deplane.
His compensation will be based on ID - Involuntarily Deboarded. And the compensation will be much much higher.
#2549
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, België
Programs: MUCCI Gold
Posts: 2,512
The airline is committing basic PR errors in keeping this running for more damaging news cycles. The longer it does this, the worse it is going to get.
The CEO needs to be out there - NOW - issuing an *unreserved* apology to the passenger concerned, and those who witnessed it, and that they have a team of people working on making amends. Not doing so constitutes a continued failure of leadership and recognising that the buck stops with him when things go wrong.
The first step back is a large helping of humble pie.
Last edited by V10; Apr 11, 2017 at 7:43 am Reason: -is
#2550
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: AA ex-EXP, 2MM (ex DL, ex TWA)
Posts: 1,427