bobbybrown

ICN opens another terminal soon without another runway. Takeoff/landing slot is in full almost all day long in these days and the 4th runway won't come until 2023 or so. That said, the airport is very willing to arrange slots for additional long haul flights so UA won't have a big issue.

username

Reading how people on the DL board complain how DL has drastically reduced its Asia presence, I think we are still a lot better off than the DL people.

I see Kirby's fingerprint all over this but I guess it makes sense.

I don't see UA doing a JV with OZ (or any other Asian carrier) - NH probably would not want that.

I remember I did a SEL-NRT flight on UA in the 90s and it was a DC-10.

warrenw

Yeah still slated for October, but with three runways I think they have plenty of capacity. I mean, it's nothing like what NRT or LHR sees, that's for sure.

Which is unfortunate, because ANA doesn't really fly into ICN instead they fly to GMP and even then it's to HND, so it makes it difficult to transfer in Japan now. Every ticket through TYO after the end of October is more expensive because it requires a leg on OZ, and since there is no JV it raises the prices of tickets.

username

Don't a lot of airlines have through/interline fares that don't require JV? Can they just do that?

jsloan

Actually, this isn't true at all. First of all, you absolutely do not need a JV to offer fares that incorporate another airline's flights. Many UA fares to Southeast Asia involve flights on CX or KA. UA obviously doesn't have a JV with these airlines, but they've negotiated an agreement to carry each other's passengers. (It's not even necessary to have a codeshare agreement in place).

In fact, you actually can route between ICN and SFO using an OZ flight to TYO. It's allowed in the fare rules (so is Jeju, if you're so inclined). If you look at the fare rules, you can see pretty easily that this is UA's plan for ICN service. This is from an ICN-SFO L fare:

So, while the UA flight exists, they'll charge you a premium to fly OZ instead. Once the UA flight is cancelled, the surcharge disappears.

This does depend upon available OZ inventory, of course, but the basic point is that UA is now combining with OZ on this particular route.

warrenw

Oh I see - I was not aware that the surcharge disappears after October. Thanks for the info! That'll save me on future flights.

The only thing I can complain about now is that OZ departing to NRT gives me a really long layover, but I'll manage.

N227UA

A UA staff at ICN told me that there hadn't been any news about a new flight to ICN. I don't think slot is an issue at ICN. It's not like HND, right?

Yes, I think UA couldn't careless about South Korea market. It has constantly shrunk seat capacity to ICN except for the short-lived GUM flight.

There is a UA NRT-GMP DC-10 video on youtube. Interestingly, it arrived at GMP so early in the afternoon. Given that the flight number is 827, I guess it was really a continuation of HNL-NRT flight (not just using the same flight number like UA78/79 now).

Unfortunately, UA doesn't seem to allow using NH HND-GMP flights for most fares to ICN. If it did, then it would have been possible to fly UA SFO-HND and connect on NH HND-GMP.

Good point; they are eliminating the surcharge for OZ ICN-NRT flights. However, it seems OZ is planning to dump ICN-NRT to its low-cost subsidiary and OZ seat supply in the market will be reduced for sure. Not surprising given that NH already dumped this market and JL is pulling out in next March.

Yes, OZ ICN-NRT flight schedules are awful for UA connections; either catch 9am flight or 3pm flight. The 9am flight leaves just too much time for transit at NRT. Moreover, this flight is almost impossible to catch unless you are originating from outside Seoul. The 3pm flight won't let you connect on most UA flights if not all. (Well, you can connect on HNL or GUM)

findark

While fares don't generally allow NH, you can route -TYO-SEL via HND-GMP on OZ if you feel so inclined.

warrenw

The few fares I found that include NH require an airport swap to HND and vice versa.

I also notice UA fares that codeshare with Jeju Air.

If they get rid of flights and send them to their LCC I pray they don't do it with their morning flight.

jsloan

The UA SEL fares do not allow NH flights. The V fare (not the W fare) allows Jeju (7C) flights. I suspect this is what you mean; as far as I can tell, there's no actual UA/7C codeshare (i.e., a flight with a UA flight number operated by 7C).

It seems that when UA lifted the surcharge on taking the OZ flight, they also threw in a nasty little requirement:

Prior to Oct 29, you can fly an OZ flight with an OZ flight number on this fare, but you pay a surcharge. Starting Oct 29, you can only fly an OZ flight if it's a UA codeshare -- and UA doesn't (currently) codeshare on the GMP-HND flight. That same language is included in the V, Q, H, and U fare; the M fare allows you to fly an OZ flight on its native flight number but adds a ~₩350,000 surcharge. (Since, apparently, forcing you all the way up to M just wasn't good enough ).

Anyway, maybe UA will add its code on GMP-HND. In the meantime, it looks like UA wants you to stick with the nonstop; alternatively, United.com seems to be returning quite a few broken fares connecting via China. Of course, that requires connecting via China, so...

findark

Oops, I missed that requirement

maverickar15

Sucks they are ending this route. Other than the SFO > ICN direct flight, this was the only way I could get to Seoul via Narita on UA metal.

Also, even though there are a lot of *A connections you can make via OZ / NH, UA is usually the cheapest out of the three.

I know the food and amenities sucked on this flight but it is also only 1 hour 40 minutes long... so the expectations were pretty low to begin with. Yes it is an "international" flight but it is same or shorter than the domestic flights I take from SFO to DEN / SEA!

Along with this, I'm kind of worried about UA dumping 747-400 for 787-9 on SFO > ICN route; is this like the case of now-dead SEA > NRT where they will downgauge first then pull the plug eventually?

PsiFighter37

Given SFO is UA's 'Pacific gateway', I would be quite surprised if they pull the plug on SFO-ICN. Downgauging to a 789 (for now) also isn't an indication of the route going away. UA certainly isn't ending SFO/LAX<>SYD anytime soon, even though that went from 744 to 772 to 789.

radiowell

The morning ICN-NRT and return on OZ will be on A380, perhaps anticipating the withdrawal of UA (and to a lesser extent JL?). If OZ switches to Air Seoul on ICN-NRT, UA might as well give up on Korea. If this happens, realize that only KE will be the full-service carrier serving ICN-NRT (with NH, JL, and possibly OZ? all dropping out).

warrenw

Wait, really? Last I checked it was an A330 (have a flight in December, found some good flights for my trip home for Christmas) but I haven't checked in a few weeks.

Also, I tried calling right after ticketing and include a stopover in Tokyo but under no circumstances are stopovers allowed on the fare, and when I tried to price it myself separately I couldn't without it increasing the price by over $1,000!