mduell

No.

Boraxo

True, but I suspect that we will increasingly see families who purchase BE playing the "don't make my child sit alone" card with fellow passengers (asking them to give up choice seats that they paid more for). Will be fun for FAs

Bingo. I'm very close to 1MM status but I am booking away because I refuse to pay a huge premium (x4 for family trips) to fly UA. In the past UA often got the benefit of the doubt because the elite perks + EQM > $20-30 higher fare. But now the fare differential is often higher and I can get similar perks on VX/AS/AA with my credit card or for free/cheap on WN.

I don't think UA is sufficiently sophisticated to do that, nor does it need to be. Many flights are already packed so you rarely find an aisle (or window) seat within a week of travel, except for the occasional seat that opens when an elite gets a CPU.

Was $240 cheaper than your alternative on WN/AA/DL/VX? Because I haven't seen that on any my flights - at best UA is simply matching the lowest fares.

This would be a tough scenario for me as I see no reason to accept BE any more than to fly Spirit, Ryanair or any carrier with an unacceptable product. Instead I think I would likely wait for a fare reduction on a competitor. WN is the only airline I fly without an assigned seat, and I gladly pay EBCI to ensure I get an aisle and to save seats for my family.

E+ certainly has a value to me and when I was 1P I often paid the upcharge for 2 family members. But it wasn't $80 even on transcon.

This is a good point we see often in Gleff's blog. Pissing off your elites when they fly with their families is not smart, because they can easily choose to direct the lucrative business tickets to your competitor. I'm flying SQ paid C TPAC soon - could easily have chosen a UA routing but why bother when the product is inferior and the message is that my business doesn't matter?

All of a sudden that $80 BE revenue looks small compared to the $7k fare you just lost.

Exleftseat

Quick explanation why my kids picked a BE fare on UA. They applied SWU/GPU from LAX to NRT, but then that meant they needed to go PHX-LAX. Going SWA would have been the cheapest option but meant schlepping luggage from T1 to T7 using the bus. They did this on the last rip and while the flight was great, the terminal change at LAX created some annoyance. So this time they picked UA since at least they are in the same terminal and that makes things a bit easier. They don't like to give their money to UA for this BE fare ( they are both 1 K ) but in this case convenience was the defining factor
for their decision. Now if they will be able to check their luggage through from PHX to NRT that would mean they hit the jackpot.

iahphx

Yes. I bought a $98 roundtrip BE fare that had an $80 upsell to regular economy. I actually wasn't going to buy it, because I'm not keen to experience BE, but my wife and daughter insisted. It's a long weekend trip that we probably wouldn't have made at a higher cost. So UA basically made me an offer I couldn't refuse for a sucky product, even though I wanted to.

jsloan

I'm a bit surprised that the PHX-NRT through fare was that much more expensive than the LAX-NRT fare.

They should get their 1K luggage allowance and they should be able to interline the bags; however, they should arrive extra early to do so, as apparently a UA/UA interline is actually more difficult in the system than a UA/non-UA interline.

minnyfly

You're missing the context. The implication was that demand was constant and that the lowest Y fare pax all shifted to BE. There was no book-away in that theoretical scenario.

It makes all sense. BE passengers are very price sensitive. After all, they just turned down many better amenities to save $10-40. It would be a turn-around for that type of passenger to buy-up to E+. Combine that buying preference with the lack of people buying up to E+ in the first place, and the revenue loss from BE being unable to buy-up to E+ would have to be small to virtually none.

jsloan

Fine, but in the real world, people will book away, and UA absolutely must replace those passengers with incremental revenue elsewhere. If your statement is, "all things being equal, higher prices generate more revenue," that's fine -- but all things are not equal.

If this analysis were true, ULCCs would go out of business immediately. Their entire business strategy is to entice people with low fares and then make their money on ancillary revenue. People are simply more willing to spend $100 twice than $200 once. Study after study has proven it, and the fact that the ULCCs are still in business confirms it.

Just because you're not seeing E+ full on your flights doesn't mean it's not full on others. It also doesn't mean that the customers currently seated in E- aren't going to be willing to do a last-minute buy-up when they realize how lousy their seat will be -- perhaps even a TOD all the way to F.

spin88

I 100% agree with you that how one gets treated on "family" travel is a large part of the "package". United has in the past been relative savvy about these things, for example giving E+ access to more family members and allowing MMs to pick a spouse. The combo of E+ + lounge access has caused me to pick United for family vacations over the last few years on some trips, even when I gave my business travel to Delta/VX.

I think the difference is that BE is showing up on any "family" trips on UA, and not on Delta. For example, I recently booked 4x SFO-SEA-SFO. United wanted to sell me BE, Delta and VX/AS were both regular Y, for the exact same price. VX/AS because they don't do the BE scam, DL either because we were outside of the lowest fare categories, or due to a particularity of the SFO-SEA market (fare was $158 RT X/t fares) I did not have BE.

I say again, I have yet to ever run into a BE fare on DL, even for family trips. I know it is out there, I just don't run into it.

This said, UA is showing some really weird pricing on this route in the last few days, see e.g.: BE being offered at $216 RT while one can buy Y on the same flights for $78 RT.

Boraxo

No I wasn't doubting that regular UA economy fare was $80 higher than UA BE fare, but was skeptical that lowest fare on all competitors (assuming there were others flying this route) was $178 when UA is offering a $98 fare. That type of differential rarely lasts unless the competing flights are nonstops vs. connection, or more preferable times, etc. See spin88 example above which demonstrates the situation where UA will absolutely lose my business. And leaves a stale taste because I'll be in E- on AS/VX. Why bother earning elite when I have to buy up just to get a seat assignments much less E+?

zeer0

Here's the thing, it's very very rarely $10 or even $20 RT. Far more often it's $40 on flights under ~$300 and $80 on flights more than that. You're looking at an upsell of up to 40% on short distance flights, and that's beyond just superly price sensitive customers not buying up or saying no to UA all together.

And don't even get me started on how often the difference is not what it should be. It's happening often enough to where I'm starting to think they'll just change the terms of BE buy ups to be an upcharge of anything up to say 50% of the BE fare.

TomMM

This morning in the TSA line standing behind a guy that asked "What does no carry on baggage mean?" I replied "Basic Economy fare. If they won't allow your carry on it will cost $25.". "Hmmm I didn't know that. I can handle the $25".

GiorgiD

I have a question about carry on bag policy. It says that I have a laptop backpack that is larger than those dimensions (20 x 12.2 x 5.7) but fits under the seat. I won't have anything else with me. Will that qualify as a personal item or do I need to check-in the backpack ?

jsloan

Welcome to FT!

That entirely depends upon how the agents are feeling that day when you check in and board. If you're flying United Basic Economy, and don't have any status, you'll be required to check in at the airport counter. If the agent suspects your item is oversized, he or she may ask you to put it into the bag sizer. The same thing could happen at the gate (and they'd charge twice as much at that point). If nobody asks, you'll likely be fine.

GiorgiD

Thanks. Does anyone know how strictly is the policy enforced in practice?

Kacee

I would get a smaller bag. Otherwise you risk having your laptop force-checked.