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Post-Southwest Flight Experience And Things United Can Learn

Post-Southwest Flight Experience And Things United Can Learn

Old Jul 8, 2016, 9:24 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by wetrat0
I don't see how it could be stressful. Aside from a very small number of seats (that you need to be A-List to get), all the seats have identical space. It's your preference whether you want front/back, aisle/window. You just walk on in your assigned order and sit down somewhere that looks good. Of course it helps to be near the beginning if you're picky. But I have to agree with the OP that boarding is messed up at United (and AA).
Board at the end of the Bs sometime and then tell me it's not stressful. Every empty middle seat you walk past makes you think "maybe there aren't any more aisles/windows left and I should just try to stick closer to the front." And indeed, this happened to a person just a few spots behind me in line - he went all the way to the back hoping for a window or an aisle, and instead got stuck in last row middle. He could've had 2B, but he took a risk and got rewarded with a tight space, no window, no recline, and the longest wait to get off the plane possible.. That's stressful.
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Old Jul 8, 2016, 9:50 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Board at the end of the Bs sometime and then tell me it's not stressful. Every empty middle seat you walk past makes you think "maybe there aren't any more aisles/windows left and I should just try to stick closer to the front." And indeed, this happened to a person just a few spots behind me in line - he went all the way to the back hoping for a window or an aisle, and instead got stuck in last row middle. He could've had 2B, but he took a risk and got rewarded with a tight space, no window, no recline, and the longest wait to get off the plane possible.. That's stressful.
Flew WN twice weekly SMF-BUR-SMF. Mostly A-List, so I'm seated when FA announces "Okay, folks, no more aisles or windows, just grab that first middle seat you see and get to know your neighbors." And I watch the FAs in the rear of the plane monitor bin space and inform the forward FA's so they can let later boarders know to use the first bin space they come to.
The stress in WN boarding isn't choosing a seat. It is watching the COS come down the aisle and hope he's not eyeing the middle seat in your row. But assigned seats really don't solve that anyway.
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Old Jul 8, 2016, 10:25 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by seat38a
Also, WN is able to do this with only one line. Group A gets in line then boards, then B, then C without the {mess} of the 5 line system of UA.
I count two boarding lines, one for 1-30 and one for 31-60.

Originally Posted by Rotus12
The boarding process is fine, employees are friendlier, employees don't seem on the edge of clinical depression, no change fees, no bag fees, directv, copious drink vouchers and random unbilled free drinks, generally cheap fares, easy website and app.

Focusing on the No Change Fees and basically a 12 month travel voucher if you cancel it altogether. That is a tremendous perk. How is it that only one airline has taken it upon themselves to do this? Bad business by southwest or bad business by the others?
The "no change fees" makes for very expensive last-minute changes (refare to full fare), vs typically $75 ($0 for high elites) at UA.
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Old Jul 8, 2016, 10:56 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by mduell
I count two boarding lines, one for 1-30 and one for 31-60.



The "no change fees" makes for very expensive last-minute changes (refare to full fare), vs typically $75 ($0 for high elites) at UA.
I'm counting it as 1 line used for each group (A, B, C) but yes each group line number is 1-60, 1-30 on one side and the rest on the other side.
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Old Jul 9, 2016, 12:38 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mduell
I count two boarding lines, one for 1-30 and one for 31-60.



The "no change fees" makes for very expensive last-minute changes (refare to full fare), vs typically $75 ($0 for high elites) at UA.
At the end of the day, Southwest makes sense for some routes and for some travel needs. Not all.
But the OP's idea of hybridizing their boarding method with UA's assigned seats and various fare and status levels - essentially assigning a specific boarding line position - certainly makes sense. Btw, because the WN BP is clearly marked with line position, it's easy to politely confront line cutters and lurkers.
Strictly speaking about boarding, UA - and AA and DL too - is a circus compared to WN.
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Old Jul 10, 2016, 9:25 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by seat38a
My parents and I flew to ABQ this past weekend on Southwest Airlines since United had some terrible schedules into ABQ. This was the first time I've flown WN since they implemented the group + line number boarding system. I paid for Early Bird checkin and was assigned Group A 26, 27 and 28. I was quite amazed at how orderly the boarding process was. The only "cattle call" was on my last 4 United flights. Gate lice are not an issue since everyone has a line number.

Couple observations that United should copy.
1. Families board AFTER group A has boarded but before group B.
2. Medical pre boarding requires getting a pre board pass from the counter NOT just randomly joining the disabled pre boarding group.
3. Boarding group A 1-15 is reserved for WN's version of "Business Class" Business Select fare payers. All other elites via A List level get assigned AFTER the paid Business Select boards.
4. Maybe implement some sort of line numbering system to prevent gate lice and ENFORCE IT.

For all the ills people talk about WN's boarding system, I thought it was a REALLY fair system, that they actually enforced and also rewards those who paid the highest fares, and elites. Also, WN is able to do this with only one line. Group A gets in line then boards, then B, then C without the {mess} of the 5 line system of UA.
UAL could learn how to depart and arrive on time, SW seems to have that mastered
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Old Jul 10, 2016, 11:28 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by spin88
It works for WN, but if you think for even a second about it, they reserve A 1-15 for Elites and people buying more expensive fares. So on a flight with 143 (-700) and 175 seats (-800) they have 15 elite/business travelers. On many UA (or DL or AA) flights actual elites/business travelers may be 30-50% of the passengers. WN just has a very different customer base which requires different solutions.
That's not even close to correct. A1-15 is reserved for whoever wants to pay for a Business Select fare. It could be your first flight ever on any airline and if you buy a BS fare, you'll get one of those 15 boarding spots.

A16-A60 will only go to non-status passengers if they are not all taken by A-list and A-list Preferred "elites". It's possible that even then there are so many A-list and A-list Preferred customers that some of them get B boarding numbers. However in that case they are allowed to board after A60 and before the B group starts.

So to say that WN only has 15 elite/business travelers on a given flight is simply not correct.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 12:23 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Lani1
UAL could learn how to depart and arrive on time, SW seems to have that mastered
Those days of consistent WN on time reliability ended several years ago. But the reputation lingers, just like their reputation for low fares, which is also no longer true.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 7:26 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
...WN killed the passenger experience when they slimlined their aircraft....
@:-)@:-)@:-)

Flew in a WN slimline last year. I will promise you that was my last WN flight EVER.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 7:27 am
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Originally Posted by Bonehead
@:-)@:-)@:-)

Flew in a WN slimline last year. I will promise you that was my last WN flight EVER.
As someone who hasn't flown Southwest in years, would you mind expanding on your statement?
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 7:34 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by laxmillenial
As someone who hasn't flown Southwest in years, would you mind expanding on your statement?
The WN seat used to be one of the more comfortable coach seats on any aircraft that I've ever flown (I'm 6'3" and 225+/- for reference). The slimlines are too narrow (I have to get lucky and sit next to a small person not to have the shoulder-squeeze go on the whole flight), and there was very little knee room (can't recall if I had any at all...the seat in front of me may have been contacting my knees the whole flight).

In short, I was miserable.

I'm sure if you're a smaller individual the seats are ok, but they simply don't work for me.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 7:40 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Bonehead
The slimlines are too narrow (I have to get lucky and sit next to a small person not to have the shoulder-squeeze go on the whole flight), and there was very little knee room (can't recall if I had any at all...the seat in front of me may have been contacting my knees the whole flight).
The cushioning is also awful. I flew the old seat and the Evolve back to back and the difference was stark. They also cut the pitch. It's like E- on UA now. Just a very very uncomfortable ride.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 7:43 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Lani1
UAL could learn how to depart and arrive on time, SW seems to have that mastered
Kacee hit this one on the head. WN of the 4 big players is consistently/significantly at the bottom, lingering with AA. DL has been tops, with UA right behind DL. When WN started to fly to more expensive, more congested primary airports years back, their system performance has fallen below all the other major carriers. And their cost structure has increased at the same time, passing those costs on to the consumers. But reputation lags reality for a long time.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 8:00 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
The cushioning is also awful. I flew the old seat and the Evolve back to back and the difference was stark. They also cut the pitch. It's like E- on UA now. Just a very very uncomfortable ride.
The worst thing about the Evolve (aka Devolve) seats is that their seats used to be really comfortable, as we both have noted. It made the typical WN shenanigans (20-person preboard entourages, seat saving, line jumping) tolerable.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 12:07 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by seat38a
My parents and I flew to ABQ this past weekend on Southwest Airlines since United had some terrible schedules into ABQ. This was the first time I've flown WN since they implemented the group + line number boarding system. I paid for Early Bird checkin and was assigned Group A 26, 27 and 28. I was quite amazed at how orderly the boarding process was. The only "cattle call" was on my last 4 United flights. Gate lice are not an issue since everyone has a line number.

Couple observations that United should copy.
1. Families board AFTER group A has boarded but before group B.
2. Medical pre boarding requires getting a pre board pass from the counter NOT just randomly joining the disabled pre boarding group.
3. Boarding group A 1-15 is reserved for WN's version of "Business Class" Business Select fare payers. All other elites via A List level get assigned AFTER the paid Business Select boards.
4. Maybe implement some sort of line numbering system to prevent gate lice and ENFORCE IT.

For all the ills people talk about WN's boarding system, I thought it was a REALLY fair system, that they actually enforced and also rewards those who paid the highest fares, and elites. Also, WN is able to do this with only one line. Group A gets in line then boards, then B, then C without the {mess} of the 5 line system of UA.
It's not all roses. I avoid WN when I can because of many things, the boarding system being one of them.

EBCI is a perfect case of giving you a disease and then selling you the cure. They take extra revenue by people trying to avoid a problem WN themselves have created: Having to roll the dice and having to interrupt your day 24 hours beforehand to check in. Worse still, the program gets exploited by groups who buy 1, EBCI ticket, and then save seats for their companions..thereby devaluing the product for others that have paid for it. As WN refuses to take a stance on seat saving, don't expect them to make any effort to end this practice. What's more, it really doesn't offer much when you take into account thru pax. If WN simply had assigned seating, none of this would be an issue.

WN is all coach class. As such, the rewards are not that great. You get a free coach seat after a huge amount of flying, but one that is not assigned and still requires you to get into the scrum. No first class..no lounges..no points xferable to intl long hauls.

No bag fee is nice, but let's face it, most of us FF'er never check bags anyhow. No change fees is also nice, but not completely true either if there is a $ differential between flights when you have to pay the diff. Flying 2 times a week for 10 years, I have only ever had to change a flight once anyhow, so for me, it's not an incentive. It may be for those with more fluid schedules.

Fly WN enough, and you will see that the seating system they have is more pain than pleasure. In almost every flight there are kettles who cannot figure it out, companions sneaking on with their lower number companions, line cutting, and a lack of enforcement for boarding order. I prefer to choose my seat beforehand. I know what I am doing, I know where I want to sit, and I know how to get it.

This is subjective, but I also find the experience of WN very very taxing. The whole camp-counselor chumminess schtick, while amusing to the average late middle aged white male AM radio listener, is simply cringy when you have to deal with it a few times a week. The cornball jokes, the stupid hold messages (remember WN Rap?) on their phones, the egalitarian bragging. I prefer an exclusive, NON egalitarian, mature attitude after flying so much. A bit of dignity.

I still fly WN but in very limted circumstances. The flight has to be under 2 hours, direct, and the only available option on the route. Even then I buy Biz Select and hold my nose.
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