UA resuming EWR - ATH; launching IAD - BCN, IAD -LIS
Oct 9, 2015, 8:09 pm
#16
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ORD-LAS
Programs: UA MM 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 4,419
EWR-ATH 4956 miles
EWR-IST 5029 miles
less than 100 miles difference? Really? You must be joking.
It does work for peak tourist season in Europe for markets where you can command peak summer pricing. Looking at ATH I don't see this. Also, for most of mainland Europe there is still some residual J business during summer and I just don't see this for ATH.
Remain VERY skeptical that the ATH route will be profitable.
EWR-IST 5029 miles
less than 100 miles difference? Really? You must be joking.
It does work for peak tourist season in Europe for markets where you can command peak summer pricing. Looking at ATH I don't see this. Also, for most of mainland Europe there is still some residual J business during summer and I just don't see this for ATH.
Remain VERY skeptical that the ATH route will be profitable.
Oct 9, 2015, 8:39 pm
#17
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC, SLC, LAX
Programs: AA EXP, UA Plat
Posts: 3,951
Why will ORD-EWR-ATH necessarily capture people instead of ORD-FRA-ATH? It's not like the existing option will go away.
Oct 9, 2015, 8:45 pm
#18
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I'd agree with that. This routes will be done very well. Let see how it goes. If those routes will be so successful.
Oct 9, 2015, 8:51 pm
#19
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,508
Lots of cruises embark/debark out of Athens in the Summer and the cruise lines buy large blocks of seats to sell as part of cruise packages. Same for BCN.
Oct 9, 2015, 9:08 pm
#20
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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EWR-ATH was operated by a 762 with CO in 2011ish and did not return. And now with a larger plane (and much larger J inventory to boot) I don't think this route will stick around past the summer. And I wish UA would stick to their word and use the sCO 757s domestically instead of throwing them on the seasonal dartboard.
Oct 9, 2015, 9:14 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
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UA over the last few years seems to be the king of seasonal leisure routes that are super seasonal: ORD-SNN, IAD-BCN, EWR-IST, EWR-ARN, EWR-Venice, ORD-EDI etc. I do question how profitable these routes are -- especially when newer routes like EWR-IST/CPH/EZE/BFS have been dropped.
EWR-ATH was operated by a 762 with CO in 2011ish and did not return. And now with a larger plane (and much larger J inventory to boot) I don't think this route will stick around past the summer. And I wish UA would stick to their word and use the sCO 757s domestically instead of throwing them on the seasonal dartboard.
EWR-ATH was operated by a 762 with CO in 2011ish and did not return. And now with a larger plane (and much larger J inventory to boot) I don't think this route will stick around past the summer. And I wish UA would stick to their word and use the sCO 757s domestically instead of throwing them on the seasonal dartboard.
As for the CO 752's, they've removed them from EWR-LHR, EWR-TXL, MAD, BCN. I'd say they are sticking to their word. It was never going to be every single 752.
Oct 9, 2015, 9:49 pm
#22
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What would be to question? Peak season for travel, filling the aircraft with passengers, unlike during the down season, winter time, where seats remain empty.
As for the CO 752's, they've removed them from EWR-LHR, EWR-TXL, MAD, BCN. I'd say they are sticking to their word. It was never going to be every single 752.
As for the CO 752's, they've removed them from EWR-LHR, EWR-TXL, MAD, BCN. I'd say they are sticking to their word. It was never going to be every single 752.
That's not enough. They basically said the 763s would backfill the 757s to go domestic. So far other than EWR-LAX/SFO and a few EWR turns there hasn't been any further action.
Oct 9, 2015, 10:54 pm
#23
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Incorrect when you look at the facts.
http://www.anna.aero/2015/09/30/amer...tes-to-europe/
AA and DL do more of this - see the numbers - UA is actually third in seasonal peaks / valleys summer vs winter and has the most consistent schedule. 20+ flight reduction for AA/DL vs 15 for UA.
It's called the airline business. You send planes to places where there's opportunity.
UA over the last few years seems to be the king of seasonal leisure routes that are super seasonal: ORD-SNN, IAD-BCN, EWR-IST, EWR-ARN, EWR-Venice, ORD-EDI etc. I do question how profitable these routes are -- especially when newer routes like EWR-IST/CPH/EZE/BFS have been dropped.
EWR-ATH was operated by a 762 with CO in 2011ish and did not return. And now with a larger plane (and much larger J inventory to boot) I don't think this route will stick around past the summer. And I wish UA would stick to their word and use the sCO 757s domestically instead of throwing them on the seasonal dartboard.
http://www.anna.aero/2015/09/30/amer...tes-to-europe/
AA and DL do more of this - see the numbers - UA is actually third in seasonal peaks / valleys summer vs winter and has the most consistent schedule. 20+ flight reduction for AA/DL vs 15 for UA.
It's called the airline business. You send planes to places where there's opportunity.
EWR-ATH was operated by a 762 with CO in 2011ish and did not return. And now with a larger plane (and much larger J inventory to boot) I don't think this route will stick around past the summer. And I wish UA would stick to their word and use the sCO 757s domestically instead of throwing them on the seasonal dartboard.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Oct 9, 2015 at 11:42 pm Reason: repaired quote
Oct 9, 2015, 10:57 pm
#24
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2
EWR-ATH 4956 miles
EWR-IST 5029 miles
less than 100 miles difference? Really? You must be joking.
It does work for peak tourist season in Europe for markets where you can command peak summer pricing. Looking at ATH I don't see this. Also, for most of mainland Europe there is still some residual J business during summer and I just don't see this for ATH.
Remain VERY skeptical that the ATH route will be profitable.
EWR-IST 5029 miles
less than 100 miles difference? Really? You must be joking.
It does work for peak tourist season in Europe for markets where you can command peak summer pricing. Looking at ATH I don't see this. Also, for most of mainland Europe there is still some residual J business during summer and I just don't see this for ATH.
Remain VERY skeptical that the ATH route will be profitable.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Oct 9, 2015 at 11:44 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member -- please use multi-quote
Oct 9, 2015, 11:08 pm
#25
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Oct 10, 2015, 7:23 am
#27
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 276
Updated S16 schedule to Europe (July)
Chicago (10)
Amsterdam UA 909 – 763
Brussels UA 972 – 772
Dublin UA 152 – 752
Edinburgh UA 118 - 752
Frankfurt UA 907 – 772, UA 944 – 772
London UA 928 – 763, UA 938 – 763, UA 958 – 763
Munich UA 952 – 772
Paris UA 987 – 772
Rome UA 970 – 772
Shannon UA 66 – 752
Houston (4)
Amsterdam UA 58 – 772
Frankfurt UA 46 – 772
London UA 4 – 788, UA 921 – 763, UA 985 – 788
Munich UA 104 - 763
Los Angeles (1)
London UA 934 - 789
Newark (27)
Amsterdam UA 70 – 763
Athens UA 124 – 763
Barcelona 120 – 764
Belfast UA 77 – 752
Berlin UA 962 – 764
Birmingham UA 27 – 752
Brussels UA 60 – 772
Dublin UA 23 – 752, UA 130 – 752
Edinburgh UA 36 – 752, UA 108 – 752
Frankfurt UA 50 – 772
Geneva UA 148 – 763
Glasgow UA 161 – 752
Hamburg UA 864 - 763
Lisbon UA 63 – 763
London UA 922 – 764, UA 110 – 763, UA 29 – 763, UA 942 – 764, UA 940 – 763
Madrid UA 964 – 763
Manchester UA 81 – 752
Milan UA 19 - 772
Munich UA 106 – 763
Newcastle UA 74 – 752
Oslo UA 38 - 752
Paris UA 904 – 772, UA 54 – 764
Rome UA 40 - 772
Shannon UA 25 – 752
Stockholm UA 68 - 752
Venice UA 170 - 764
Zurich UA 134 - 764
San Francisco (3)
Frankfurt UA 903 – 744, UA 926 - 772
London UA 901 – 744, UA 930 - 772
Paris UA 990 - 772
Washington (14)
Amsterdam UA 946 – 763
Barcelona UA 140 – 764
Brussels UA 950 - 772
Dublin UA 126 – 752
Frankfurt UA 989 – 772, UA 932 – 772
Geneva UA 974 - 763
Lisbon UA 168 – 752
London UA 122 – 752, UA 918 – 772, UA 924 – 772
Madrid UA 163 - 752
Manchester UA 100 – 752
Munich UA 132 - 772
Paris UA 915 – 772
Rome UA 42 – 772
Zurich UA 52 - 764
Chicago (10)
Amsterdam UA 909 – 763
Brussels UA 972 – 772
Dublin UA 152 – 752
Edinburgh UA 118 - 752
Frankfurt UA 907 – 772, UA 944 – 772
London UA 928 – 763, UA 938 – 763, UA 958 – 763
Munich UA 952 – 772
Paris UA 987 – 772
Rome UA 970 – 772
Shannon UA 66 – 752
Houston (4)
Amsterdam UA 58 – 772
Frankfurt UA 46 – 772
London UA 4 – 788, UA 921 – 763, UA 985 – 788
Munich UA 104 - 763
Los Angeles (1)
London UA 934 - 789
Newark (27)
Amsterdam UA 70 – 763
Athens UA 124 – 763
Barcelona 120 – 764
Belfast UA 77 – 752
Berlin UA 962 – 764
Birmingham UA 27 – 752
Brussels UA 60 – 772
Dublin UA 23 – 752, UA 130 – 752
Edinburgh UA 36 – 752, UA 108 – 752
Frankfurt UA 50 – 772
Geneva UA 148 – 763
Glasgow UA 161 – 752
Hamburg UA 864 - 763
Lisbon UA 63 – 763
London UA 922 – 764, UA 110 – 763, UA 29 – 763, UA 942 – 764, UA 940 – 763
Madrid UA 964 – 763
Manchester UA 81 – 752
Milan UA 19 - 772
Munich UA 106 – 763
Newcastle UA 74 – 752
Oslo UA 38 - 752
Paris UA 904 – 772, UA 54 – 764
Rome UA 40 - 772
Shannon UA 25 – 752
Stockholm UA 68 - 752
Venice UA 170 - 764
Zurich UA 134 - 764
San Francisco (3)
Frankfurt UA 903 – 744, UA 926 - 772
London UA 901 – 744, UA 930 - 772
Paris UA 990 - 772
Washington (14)
Amsterdam UA 946 – 763
Barcelona UA 140 – 764
Brussels UA 950 - 772
Dublin UA 126 – 752
Frankfurt UA 989 – 772, UA 932 – 772
Geneva UA 974 - 763
Lisbon UA 168 – 752
London UA 122 – 752, UA 918 – 772, UA 924 – 772
Madrid UA 163 - 752
Manchester UA 100 – 752
Munich UA 132 - 772
Paris UA 915 – 772
Rome UA 42 – 772
Zurich UA 52 - 764
Last edited by Mirko; Oct 10, 2015 at 8:21 am
Oct 10, 2015, 7:57 am
#28
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: MKE
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, DL SkyMiles
Posts: 30
Thanks for the recap, I was going to ask if someone could do this. Does anyone have a running list of adds YOY or even adds (and drops) since the merger?
I actually think using the 752 TATL during the summer is a great use for them. You can add secondary flights to markets you already serve (BCN, EDI, SNN, DUB, etc) that don't require any airport investment, and also doesn't require a doubling of airport staff as it better utilizes the staff they have already contracted. Remember too that the 75B is the least J-heavy UA international plane, which works great on these leisure-heavy routes.
Percent of airplane capacity that is BusinessFirst (ignoring crew rest requirements)
75B: 9.5%
76E: 14.0%
76I: 16.6%
764: 16.1%
77Y: 18.7%
Also, some of these have replaced what were a second daily EWR back in the early stages of the merger. These open up new connection opportunities, and in many cases offer the only nonstop on the route. It still surprises me that ORD-SNN/EDI were added over IAD-SNN/EDI
I actually think using the 752 TATL during the summer is a great use for them. You can add secondary flights to markets you already serve (BCN, EDI, SNN, DUB, etc) that don't require any airport investment, and also doesn't require a doubling of airport staff as it better utilizes the staff they have already contracted. Remember too that the 75B is the least J-heavy UA international plane, which works great on these leisure-heavy routes.
Percent of airplane capacity that is BusinessFirst (ignoring crew rest requirements)
75B: 9.5%
76E: 14.0%
76I: 16.6%
764: 16.1%
77Y: 18.7%
Also, some of these have replaced what were a second daily EWR back in the early stages of the merger. These open up new connection opportunities, and in many cases offer the only nonstop on the route. It still surprises me that ORD-SNN/EDI were added over IAD-SNN/EDI
Last edited by Dayvan_Cowboy; Oct 10, 2015 at 8:30 am Reason: Adding additional information about J %
Oct 10, 2015, 8:14 am
#29
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, UA Mileage Plus 1K, AA Executive Plat, Marriott Ambassador Elite
Posts: 2,344
We shall see. TATL seasonal dartboard effect continues at UA. There have been a fair amount of drops over last few years.
That's not enough. They basically said the 763s would backfill the 757s to go domestic. So far other than EWR-LAX/SFO and a few EWR turns there hasn't been any further action.
That's not enough. They basically said the 763s would backfill the 757s to go domestic. So far other than EWR-LAX/SFO and a few EWR turns there hasn't been any further action.
I dont recall UA stating every 752 was being pulled. Can you provide that source?
Oct 10, 2015, 8:46 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ORD-LAS
Programs: UA MM 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 4,419
I'm not sure why ATH is getting a bad rap. DL does 2x in the summer. The market is there for it. Aegean Airlines will also have some connecting cities that this will work for. Don't understand how UA adds a flight and now people are complaining about a dart board. Will people ever be happy? This is a fantastic use of a 767, with more 787 coming on board they finally have enough aircraft.