Sep 24, 2016, 12:05 pm
Last edit by: Global321
From the United Website...
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
1. Request for Volunteers
a. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.
a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
a. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
The flight is cancelled;
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Point
[/INDENT]a. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Involuntary Denied Boarding on Baby's First Flight
Oct 5, 2015, 10:28 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
Involuntary Denied Boarding on Baby's First Flight
I’m new to these forums and am hoping to get some feedback here about what to expect from United with regards to a violation of the DOT’s IDB comp regulations. I have read the consolidated IDB thread and I'm still at a loss as to what happened to my wife and I this weekend.
Here is what happened (sorry for the novel, but I’ve actually left out a lot).
I booked two tickets through United over the telephone on September 14 for a round trip Memphis to Houston to Memphis. The confirmation email I received showed that we had a seat assignment for both tickets. This was especially important to us because our 15 month old was flying on my wife’s lap and we wanted to be together. We attempted to check-in at the airport around an hour and ten minutes before the flight departed. We were told that their computer system showed that we had not chosen seat assignments. After showing the ticketing agent our confirmation email, she said that the gate agent could fix the problem. We checked two bags and made it to the gate around 40 minutes before departure. The line to speak with the gate agent was 8-9 people long due to a previously cancelled flight at that gate. I waited in line until it looked as though I would not be able to talk to the gate agent prior to boarding the flight.
There were two employees that had started scanning boarding passes for our flight. I tried to ask one of them about making sure that my wife/child and I have seats together. She said that the flight was overbooked and that if we didn’t have a seat number on our boarding pass, we needed to stand to the side until all other passengers had boarded. We tried to explain that we had seat assignments and had checked in well before the United 30 minute requirement, but we were ignored. After everyone had boarded, we were told that they couldn’t fit us on the plane and closed the jetway door. The crew that we had been talking to told us they had to move to a different gate to start boarding other people and left without giving us so much as an explanation. Another employee walked up and told us she thought that another flight to Houston was getting ready to board and that we should go to a certain gate and let the gate agent there know what happened.
We went to this gate and there was no gate agent. We waited there for 10 minutes or so when we noticed that a flight bound for Houston was being boarded two gates down from where we were told to go. I asked her if this flight was originally supposed to leave out of the gate that the previous employee told us to wait at. She confirmed and when I explained our situation she said “there is no way yall are getting on this flight.” We went back to our previous gate and explained what the new gate agent had just told us. The previous employee said she was going to have a talk with the new gate agent and that we just needed to wait. We waited for several minutes and I checked back with the new gate agent. She said that we are still not going to be able to get on her flight. At this point, we’d lost contact with any employee from United that was involved in our being bumped from the first flight. A business traveler who was a Mileage Plus Premier member had seen most of this unfold and gave us the Premier telephone number and said we needed to see if they could help because the employees in Memphis were clearly incompetent. My wife called the number and they were able to book us a reservation on another United flight that was scheduled to arrive in Houston 1 hour 54 minutes after our original flight. The telephone agent said that she could see that there were two seats together but could not assign those seat to us because it was too close to departure time. My wife handed the phone to the gate agent and the telephone agent and the gate agent got into an argument because the telephone agent said she could clearly see seats available while the gate agent said that the flight was already overbooked and no seats were available.
The telephone agent said there was nothing she could do remotely to make sure we had seats together, but we at least had a confirmed ticket for that flight. We had boarding passes sent to our email. This all happened around 30 minutes before the second flight started to board. When this flight started to board, we were again told that we needed to wait, but were assured several times that we would definitely make it onto this flight. We waited until everyone had boarded and and were again told that we wouldn’t be able to get on the flight, despite having boarding passes, unless someone volunteered to get off. No one did so we missed that flight too. Again the staff that had been helping us basically disappeared after the flight left, except for a supervisor that had been involved in our original bumping. The supervisor told me that we would be entitled to some compensation from the airline, but that she wouldn’t know how much until she talked to her manager and then talked to someone at United corporate. I told her that I would like to be involved on that call to her manager and to the United corporate rep, but she refused to let me speak with anyone else. She left the gate around 6:45PM and told us that she would come back with our compensation.
After she left, I began looking up the DOT regs for overbooking and discovered the 400% comp rule, as well as the rule that requires the airline to provide an involuntarily bumped passenger with a written statement of their bump policy as well as a copy of the passengers’ rights. To this point, I had been offered no comp and no written statement. Since we booked over the phone, there was no “one way fare” value, but the round trip value of both tickets was $705. So assuming the one-way value is half the fare, I figured we were entitled to at least $1,410 plus a refund on our baggage fee and all other fees associated with the fare. Also, our bags were shipped on the first plane on which we were denied boarding, so we were without our luggage. I also understand that we can refuse to accept another ticket from United and they must refund our total fare, in addition to the IDB comp. In all, I was expecting to receive comp and refunds in total of around $2,600.00.
When the supervisor returned, she had a check for us in the amount of………$370.00. And she would only offer us replacement tickets on United and refused to give us a refund. I laughed at her and told her that was ridiculous. She told me she had no authority to change the offer. She had some paperwork with the check and said that in order to receive the paperwork, I’d need to accept the check and sign the paperwork. I told her I reject their check but would like a copy of whatever paperwork she had relating to our situation. She said that if I didn’t sign, she didn’t have authority to give me the paperwork. So we left. After spending 5 hours in the airport with two separate sets of confirmed reservations and boarding passes, we left without getting on a plane and without any explanation from United what the hell had happened.
Needless to say, we’ve already filed a complaint with the DOT and with United and we finally were able to speak with the manager that the supervisor refused to allow me to speak with while we were at the airport. This manager just listened to our story and said she’d have to contact her boss before responding.
So my question is, what type of fight should I expect from United and have any of you dealt with anything remotely similar and, if so, what were the results?
Thanks!
Here is what happened (sorry for the novel, but I’ve actually left out a lot).
I booked two tickets through United over the telephone on September 14 for a round trip Memphis to Houston to Memphis. The confirmation email I received showed that we had a seat assignment for both tickets. This was especially important to us because our 15 month old was flying on my wife’s lap and we wanted to be together. We attempted to check-in at the airport around an hour and ten minutes before the flight departed. We were told that their computer system showed that we had not chosen seat assignments. After showing the ticketing agent our confirmation email, she said that the gate agent could fix the problem. We checked two bags and made it to the gate around 40 minutes before departure. The line to speak with the gate agent was 8-9 people long due to a previously cancelled flight at that gate. I waited in line until it looked as though I would not be able to talk to the gate agent prior to boarding the flight.
There were two employees that had started scanning boarding passes for our flight. I tried to ask one of them about making sure that my wife/child and I have seats together. She said that the flight was overbooked and that if we didn’t have a seat number on our boarding pass, we needed to stand to the side until all other passengers had boarded. We tried to explain that we had seat assignments and had checked in well before the United 30 minute requirement, but we were ignored. After everyone had boarded, we were told that they couldn’t fit us on the plane and closed the jetway door. The crew that we had been talking to told us they had to move to a different gate to start boarding other people and left without giving us so much as an explanation. Another employee walked up and told us she thought that another flight to Houston was getting ready to board and that we should go to a certain gate and let the gate agent there know what happened.
We went to this gate and there was no gate agent. We waited there for 10 minutes or so when we noticed that a flight bound for Houston was being boarded two gates down from where we were told to go. I asked her if this flight was originally supposed to leave out of the gate that the previous employee told us to wait at. She confirmed and when I explained our situation she said “there is no way yall are getting on this flight.” We went back to our previous gate and explained what the new gate agent had just told us. The previous employee said she was going to have a talk with the new gate agent and that we just needed to wait. We waited for several minutes and I checked back with the new gate agent. She said that we are still not going to be able to get on her flight. At this point, we’d lost contact with any employee from United that was involved in our being bumped from the first flight. A business traveler who was a Mileage Plus Premier member had seen most of this unfold and gave us the Premier telephone number and said we needed to see if they could help because the employees in Memphis were clearly incompetent. My wife called the number and they were able to book us a reservation on another United flight that was scheduled to arrive in Houston 1 hour 54 minutes after our original flight. The telephone agent said that she could see that there were two seats together but could not assign those seat to us because it was too close to departure time. My wife handed the phone to the gate agent and the telephone agent and the gate agent got into an argument because the telephone agent said she could clearly see seats available while the gate agent said that the flight was already overbooked and no seats were available.
The telephone agent said there was nothing she could do remotely to make sure we had seats together, but we at least had a confirmed ticket for that flight. We had boarding passes sent to our email. This all happened around 30 minutes before the second flight started to board. When this flight started to board, we were again told that we needed to wait, but were assured several times that we would definitely make it onto this flight. We waited until everyone had boarded and and were again told that we wouldn’t be able to get on the flight, despite having boarding passes, unless someone volunteered to get off. No one did so we missed that flight too. Again the staff that had been helping us basically disappeared after the flight left, except for a supervisor that had been involved in our original bumping. The supervisor told me that we would be entitled to some compensation from the airline, but that she wouldn’t know how much until she talked to her manager and then talked to someone at United corporate. I told her that I would like to be involved on that call to her manager and to the United corporate rep, but she refused to let me speak with anyone else. She left the gate around 6:45PM and told us that she would come back with our compensation.
After she left, I began looking up the DOT regs for overbooking and discovered the 400% comp rule, as well as the rule that requires the airline to provide an involuntarily bumped passenger with a written statement of their bump policy as well as a copy of the passengers’ rights. To this point, I had been offered no comp and no written statement. Since we booked over the phone, there was no “one way fare” value, but the round trip value of both tickets was $705. So assuming the one-way value is half the fare, I figured we were entitled to at least $1,410 plus a refund on our baggage fee and all other fees associated with the fare. Also, our bags were shipped on the first plane on which we were denied boarding, so we were without our luggage. I also understand that we can refuse to accept another ticket from United and they must refund our total fare, in addition to the IDB comp. In all, I was expecting to receive comp and refunds in total of around $2,600.00.
When the supervisor returned, she had a check for us in the amount of………$370.00. And she would only offer us replacement tickets on United and refused to give us a refund. I laughed at her and told her that was ridiculous. She told me she had no authority to change the offer. She had some paperwork with the check and said that in order to receive the paperwork, I’d need to accept the check and sign the paperwork. I told her I reject their check but would like a copy of whatever paperwork she had relating to our situation. She said that if I didn’t sign, she didn’t have authority to give me the paperwork. So we left. After spending 5 hours in the airport with two separate sets of confirmed reservations and boarding passes, we left without getting on a plane and without any explanation from United what the hell had happened.
Needless to say, we’ve already filed a complaint with the DOT and with United and we finally were able to speak with the manager that the supervisor refused to allow me to speak with while we were at the airport. This manager just listened to our story and said she’d have to contact her boss before responding.
So my question is, what type of fight should I expect from United and have any of you dealt with anything remotely similar and, if so, what were the results?
Thanks!
Oct 6, 2015, 5:34 am
#2
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 70
I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I would start with making a bulleted list of just the key facts. The ones that support your claim that they violated the rule.
Something like this:
=We bought our tickets via phone on xx/xx/xx for $xxx.xx
=We received our email confirmation with seat assignments on xx/xx/xx
=we checked in for our flight at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we checked our luggage at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we arrived at the gate at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we were denied boarding at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we were finally offered $xxx at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
You get the idea. Only include in your timeline facts that support a violation. Everything else is drama and relevant for empathy on the internet (which could be good for drawing attention from someone who can help you). You need to be prepared to file a formal complaint, and for that you need just the facts that support your complaint.
I wonder if the fact that your luggage left with the plane without you is a violation of some rule too.
Something like this:
=We bought our tickets via phone on xx/xx/xx for $xxx.xx
=We received our email confirmation with seat assignments on xx/xx/xx
=we checked in for our flight at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we checked our luggage at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we arrived at the gate at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we were denied boarding at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
=we were finally offered $xxx at x:xx xx/xx/xxxx
You get the idea. Only include in your timeline facts that support a violation. Everything else is drama and relevant for empathy on the internet (which could be good for drawing attention from someone who can help you). You need to be prepared to file a formal complaint, and for that you need just the facts that support your complaint.
I wonder if the fact that your luggage left with the plane without you is a violation of some rule too.
Oct 6, 2015, 5:40 am
#3
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Oct 6, 2015, 6:09 am
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
1. Agree with above. File a complaint with UA. Keep it to 3 short declarative sentences. Agents have 30-45 seconds to read these things and your is chock full of details which are irrelevant and obscure the bottom line.
2. By my read, each of you were IDB twice. You had proper boarding passes and were at the gate ontime for each of two separate flights. The aircraft are all more than 30 seats and it appears that your delay exceeds the maximum. NOTE: See my caution at the bottom.
3. Your claim is for 400% of the one-way tickets, capped at $1,300 each. You can see that value at the bottom of your original e-ticket receipt. There will be a string of numbers and letters. Something like IAH-MEM//205.31. In that case, the value of the ticket was $205.31 and you would be entitled to $821.24.
4. Thus, your total claim could be for $5,200 + a rebook to MEM or a refund of the UA tickets you purchased.
5. The fact that UA offered you cash suggests that it acknowledges the IDB. Anything else would be a simple customer service gesture which would come in the form of some miles or a credit useable for other UA travel. It was simply miscalculated and it is true that the agent with whom you dealt has no authority to vary that.
Here is what I would say (bear in mind that UA has your PNR and all other relevant details). Also note that each of you must file a complaint.
- My wife and I were confirmed on two successive flights from IAH-MEM on [DATE]. The value of the tickets we purchased was $xxx each.
- We were involuntarily denied boarding from flight [XXX] and rebooked onto flight [yyyy]. We were then involuntarily denied boarding from flight [yyyy].
- The total amount due to each of us is $zzzz, thus a total amount of $uuuu.
Please respond on or before [7 business days from now]. At that time, we will file a DOT complaint.
As a suggestion for the future, when you see that a flight is overbooked and at risk of oversale, grab the seats you can. When you could not get to an agent to try to arrange seats, just board. Ask the FA and then other passengers for help. There is little the GA can do anyway if there are no seats to assign. In the final analysis, this is a very short flight. Worse things than holding a baby for <1.5 hours happen.
NOTE: Valuing the second flight will be a slog with UA.
Finally - File the DOT complaint if you do not hear back from UA by the 8th business day. It can be done via webform and will result in DOT forwarding it to UA for comment.
2. By my read, each of you were IDB twice. You had proper boarding passes and were at the gate ontime for each of two separate flights. The aircraft are all more than 30 seats and it appears that your delay exceeds the maximum. NOTE: See my caution at the bottom.
3. Your claim is for 400% of the one-way tickets, capped at $1,300 each. You can see that value at the bottom of your original e-ticket receipt. There will be a string of numbers and letters. Something like IAH-MEM//205.31. In that case, the value of the ticket was $205.31 and you would be entitled to $821.24.
4. Thus, your total claim could be for $5,200 + a rebook to MEM or a refund of the UA tickets you purchased.
5. The fact that UA offered you cash suggests that it acknowledges the IDB. Anything else would be a simple customer service gesture which would come in the form of some miles or a credit useable for other UA travel. It was simply miscalculated and it is true that the agent with whom you dealt has no authority to vary that.
Here is what I would say (bear in mind that UA has your PNR and all other relevant details). Also note that each of you must file a complaint.
- My wife and I were confirmed on two successive flights from IAH-MEM on [DATE]. The value of the tickets we purchased was $xxx each.
- We were involuntarily denied boarding from flight [XXX] and rebooked onto flight [yyyy]. We were then involuntarily denied boarding from flight [yyyy].
- The total amount due to each of us is $zzzz, thus a total amount of $uuuu.
Please respond on or before [7 business days from now]. At that time, we will file a DOT complaint.
As a suggestion for the future, when you see that a flight is overbooked and at risk of oversale, grab the seats you can. When you could not get to an agent to try to arrange seats, just board. Ask the FA and then other passengers for help. There is little the GA can do anyway if there are no seats to assign. In the final analysis, this is a very short flight. Worse things than holding a baby for <1.5 hours happen.
NOTE: Valuing the second flight will be a slog with UA.
Finally - File the DOT complaint if you do not hear back from UA by the 8th business day. It can be done via webform and will result in DOT forwarding it to UA for comment.
Oct 6, 2015, 6:56 am
#5
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https://www.transportation.gov/airco...ts#Overbooking
In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.
Oct 6, 2015, 7:25 am
#6
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The current version of the rule is 60 seats, FWIW.
https://www.transportation.gov/airco...ts#Overbooking
It is also unclear if the second set of BPs were departure management cards or actual BPs. If they were actual BPs then there was nothing stopping the OP from boarding with them as that would mean seats were assigned. But it sounds like they were standby as the OP was unable to board using them.
https://www.transportation.gov/airco...ts#Overbooking
It is also unclear if the second set of BPs were departure management cards or actual BPs. If they were actual BPs then there was nothing stopping the OP from boarding with them as that would mean seats were assigned. But it sounds like they were standby as the OP was unable to board using them.
1. Nobody suggested that boarding was denied for safety / w&b reasons. The rule also does not relieve UA of the requirement that it seek volunteers.
2. OP states that he and his wife were emailed boarding passes. I have never heard of emailed departure management cards and believe that those are generated only at the airport and on stock.
If OP is lying, his claim will and should be denied.
Oct 6, 2015, 7:52 am
#7
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Oct 6, 2015, 8:49 am
#8
Join Date: Aug 2008
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The current version of the rule is 60 seats, FWIW.
https://www.transportation.gov/airco...ts#Overbooking
https://www.transportation.gov/airco...ts#Overbooking
If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.
The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold fewer than 30 passengers.
rights#Overbooking
The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold fewer than 30 passengers.
rights#Overbooking
Oct 6, 2015, 8:58 am
#9
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Kudos to you for doing research to know what your rights are. And also ^ for standing your ground when presented with a one-way street option. You absolutely did the right thing here, and I defer to other posters who know better what your next steps should be.
Oct 6, 2015, 9:36 am
#10
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A lot of unnecessary narrative and confusion here, I hope your complaint to UA/DOT was much much shorter.
Advance seat requests are irrelevant for DB purposes. UA does a poor job of the messaging here.
Roundtrip fares may not be split evenly between outbound and inbound, I'd say less than half my trips are an even split. Depending on day/time of travel the difference can be dramatic.
Not all DBs are require compensation, or compensation at the maximum level.
Do I understand correct you abandoned travel rather than being rebooked for another flight?
Advance seat requests are irrelevant for DB purposes. UA does a poor job of the messaging here.
Roundtrip fares may not be split evenly between outbound and inbound, I'd say less than half my trips are an even split. Depending on day/time of travel the difference can be dramatic.
Not all DBs are require compensation, or compensation at the maximum level.
Do I understand correct you abandoned travel rather than being rebooked for another flight?
Oct 6, 2015, 10:25 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
Thanks to everyone who responded!
To follow up on the comments:
(1) We have already filed a complaint through the United website and we have submitted a complaint through the DOT website as well. These complaints were much shorter and only contained the facts relevant to the IDB violations. I included extra detail because we had never been treated remotely close to how we were treated this weekend. I just wanted to see if this was par for the course with United.
(2) There were a couple of suggestions that since we had valid boarding passes that we should have boarded without worrying about seat assignments. We attempted to board, but were told in both instances that we could not because we didn't have a seat assignment on our ticket and since the plane was overbooked, we would have to wait until the end.
(3) The first flight plane was a CRJ7 with a capacity of 70. The second plane was an E135 with a capacity of 37. One both flights, the stated reason for our denied boarding was overbooking, not weather or safety.
(4) For the second flight, we received an actual email confirmation with PDF boarding passes attached. The email was received 30 minutes before the plane was scheduled to depart.
(5) We were never provided any documentation of what % of our roundtrip was attributed to the MEM to IAH leg. How would we go about finding this info?
(6) Regarding "abandoned travel," my understanding is that once you have been IDB'd, in addition to the comp, you can ask for an involuntary refund of the full fare and book your own travel. We asked for this too, but were denied. I called United more than 24 hours before our return leg was scheduled to depart and explained that because United violated the DOT regs and breached its contract of carriage, we would not be using our tickets on the return leg.
Lastly, we received our luggage back around 30 hours after checking it. Is there any standard "delayed luggage" comp that United provides? I didn't see it in the contract of carriage, but I didn't know if they typically make some small offer to keep you from claiming the max damages under the contract terms.
Thanks again!!
To follow up on the comments:
(1) We have already filed a complaint through the United website and we have submitted a complaint through the DOT website as well. These complaints were much shorter and only contained the facts relevant to the IDB violations. I included extra detail because we had never been treated remotely close to how we were treated this weekend. I just wanted to see if this was par for the course with United.
(2) There were a couple of suggestions that since we had valid boarding passes that we should have boarded without worrying about seat assignments. We attempted to board, but were told in both instances that we could not because we didn't have a seat assignment on our ticket and since the plane was overbooked, we would have to wait until the end.
(3) The first flight plane was a CRJ7 with a capacity of 70. The second plane was an E135 with a capacity of 37. One both flights, the stated reason for our denied boarding was overbooking, not weather or safety.
(4) For the second flight, we received an actual email confirmation with PDF boarding passes attached. The email was received 30 minutes before the plane was scheduled to depart.
(5) We were never provided any documentation of what % of our roundtrip was attributed to the MEM to IAH leg. How would we go about finding this info?
(6) Regarding "abandoned travel," my understanding is that once you have been IDB'd, in addition to the comp, you can ask for an involuntary refund of the full fare and book your own travel. We asked for this too, but were denied. I called United more than 24 hours before our return leg was scheduled to depart and explained that because United violated the DOT regs and breached its contract of carriage, we would not be using our tickets on the return leg.
Lastly, we received our luggage back around 30 hours after checking it. Is there any standard "delayed luggage" comp that United provides? I didn't see it in the contract of carriage, but I didn't know if they typically make some small offer to keep you from claiming the max damages under the contract terms.
Thanks again!!
Oct 6, 2015, 10:57 am
#12
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(6) Regarding "abandoned travel," my understanding is that once you have been IDB'd, in addition to the comp, you can ask for an involuntary refund of the full fare and book your own travel. We asked for this too, but were denied. I called United more than 24 hours before our return leg was scheduled to depart and explained that because United violated the DOT regs and breached its contract of carriage, we would not be using our tickets on the return leg.
Oct 6, 2015, 10:59 am
#13
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Wow that is quite the horrific ordeal for the OP, especially since they don't appear to be frequent travelers so their flying toolbox is rather empty.
In reviewing the original post, I do note one item that may trip up the claim for IDB. Specifically the OP makes numerous mentions of requiring to be seated together. While in most circumstances this is not a problem, on the ERJ145 the seats are 1X2. MEM-IAH is chock full of RJ145 with one daily CR7. The problem for the OP is they might have gotten a BP with seats, but they weren't together. If so, then the OP was not IDB but rather removed themselves from the flight. Under this scenario the OP does not have an IDB claim.
In reviewing the original post, I do note one item that may trip up the claim for IDB. Specifically the OP makes numerous mentions of requiring to be seated together. While in most circumstances this is not a problem, on the ERJ145 the seats are 1X2. MEM-IAH is chock full of RJ145 with one daily CR7. The problem for the OP is they might have gotten a BP with seats, but they weren't together. If so, then the OP was not IDB but rather removed themselves from the flight. Under this scenario the OP does not have an IDB claim.
Oct 6, 2015, 11:14 am
#14
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On each flight, did the GA really ask for volunteers and make compensation offers for VDBs? If not, it's another DOT violation.
OP should look at the UA CoC statements about IDBs very carefully. UA is required to have policies and to follow them regarding priority order for IDBs. Most carriers have language to protect hardship cases from IDBs, where hardship can include unaccompanied minors, young children, lap infants, the handicapped, the very elderly, etc. If one of these applies to you, it's a further violation of DOT regulations.
For the second flight, the phone agent apparently did assign seats, so that I would assume that the OP had genuine boarding passes on the phone. Regardless, the phone agent said that they were confirmed on the flight, so UA did IDB the OP and spouse twice.
In these circumstances, I don't see how UA could have calculated compensation in the $300-400 range for two people. The numbers should instantly look wrong to any experienced supervisor. It's good that they did not accept the check and sign the papers. As others have mentioned, UA was obligated to give them a written statement of IDB rights on the spot. Failure to do so is itself a violation of DOT regulations.
If the OP can identify the fare class in each direction on the ticket receipt, this will help to identify whether the ticket price for the segment in question was half of the RT fare. If it's the same fare class or booking class, it's unlikely that two very different fares were used. This can be easier to see that decoding the fare construction lines that should be on the reciept.
When the OP abandoned the trip, can UA claim that they would have been on the very next flight and thus that the delay, at least for the second IDB, was not very long? OP might want to check if ther were further flights to the destination that day. I think it's unlikely, as otherwise the supervisor who offered them the check and paperwork would have given them boarding passes for the next flight. If they had already communicated their intent to cancel the trip at that point, would UA be obligated to refund their tickets on the spot rather than through a later refund process by mail?
OP should look at the UA CoC statements about IDBs very carefully. UA is required to have policies and to follow them regarding priority order for IDBs. Most carriers have language to protect hardship cases from IDBs, where hardship can include unaccompanied minors, young children, lap infants, the handicapped, the very elderly, etc. If one of these applies to you, it's a further violation of DOT regulations.
For the second flight, the phone agent apparently did assign seats, so that I would assume that the OP had genuine boarding passes on the phone. Regardless, the phone agent said that they were confirmed on the flight, so UA did IDB the OP and spouse twice.
In these circumstances, I don't see how UA could have calculated compensation in the $300-400 range for two people. The numbers should instantly look wrong to any experienced supervisor. It's good that they did not accept the check and sign the papers. As others have mentioned, UA was obligated to give them a written statement of IDB rights on the spot. Failure to do so is itself a violation of DOT regulations.
If the OP can identify the fare class in each direction on the ticket receipt, this will help to identify whether the ticket price for the segment in question was half of the RT fare. If it's the same fare class or booking class, it's unlikely that two very different fares were used. This can be easier to see that decoding the fare construction lines that should be on the reciept.
When the OP abandoned the trip, can UA claim that they would have been on the very next flight and thus that the delay, at least for the second IDB, was not very long? OP might want to check if ther were further flights to the destination that day. I think it's unlikely, as otherwise the supervisor who offered them the check and paperwork would have given them boarding passes for the next flight. If they had already communicated their intent to cancel the trip at that point, would UA be obligated to refund their tickets on the spot rather than through a later refund process by mail?
Oct 6, 2015, 11:34 am
#15
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Well whatever comes of this snafu, your offspring will have a story worth sharing with future Flyertalkers for decades to come. Assuming that United remains in business, and that's a big if the way they have been run recently, this kid could eventually become the oldest veteran/victim of an IDB among future FTers. That's a record worth aiming for, 