Those fees are not going away: Smisek
Jul 31, 2015, 9:44 am
#61
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There are plenty of CEOs who are smart in absolute terms but turn out to be terrible communicators who alienate people.
Jul 31, 2015, 9:53 am
#62
Join Date: May 2013
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It's common practice to analyze the character and intent of people who choose to put themselves in the public eye. I have a feeling you're not going to enjoy the upcoming presidential election much.
The facts are the facts. No one here is commenting on them because they're undisputed. And while there may be some here "attacking", I think its more observation and commentary on the clumsy leadership style of Mr. Smisek. He implied that his customers are stupid by using the words he did. Discussing whether or not that was his intent is valid.
Years ago at my company, we had a President who, in a local town hall meeting of about 250 employees, basically said that if employees worked extra hard and gave up some short term rewards, he and his leadership team would be greatly rewarded. Jaws dropped...someone on his leadership team tried to ask a question to prompt him to amend what he said...whispers in the room.
I'm positive his intent wasn't to alienate employees. He didn't understand that he said something wrong, or what the impact was. Someone had to explain it to him after the meeting, and I heard that he felt very bad about it. He was just terrible at connecting with people. He lasted less than a year after that meeting, despite being a brilliant business person.
Public figures are subject to critique of their words and character. IMO, it's appropriate to discuss this because it has an impact on the business and the culture at UA.
The facts are the facts. No one here is commenting on them because they're undisputed. And while there may be some here "attacking", I think its more observation and commentary on the clumsy leadership style of Mr. Smisek. He implied that his customers are stupid by using the words he did. Discussing whether or not that was his intent is valid.
Years ago at my company, we had a President who, in a local town hall meeting of about 250 employees, basically said that if employees worked extra hard and gave up some short term rewards, he and his leadership team would be greatly rewarded. Jaws dropped...someone on his leadership team tried to ask a question to prompt him to amend what he said...whispers in the room.
I'm positive his intent wasn't to alienate employees. He didn't understand that he said something wrong, or what the impact was. Someone had to explain it to him after the meeting, and I heard that he felt very bad about it. He was just terrible at connecting with people. He lasted less than a year after that meeting, despite being a brilliant business person.
Public figures are subject to critique of their words and character. IMO, it's appropriate to discuss this because it has an impact on the business and the culture at UA.
I get that many people have a deep seated and irrational hate of a person they don't know and are only exposed to in sound bites. If people want to spend hours of their lives criticizing that person, it's their prerogative. I personally find said behavior irrational and counterproductive. For avoidance of doubt, I am discussing specific view points and actions, not individuals. Expressing such expression is consistent with FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines.
Jul 31, 2015, 10:00 am
#63
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Drawing conclusions from two brief, out of context quotes is not consistent with what you're describing.
I get that many people have a deep seated and irrational hate of a person they don't know and are only exposed to in sound bites. If people want to spend hours of their lives criticizing that person, it's their prerogative. I personally find said behavior irrational and counterproductive. For avoidance of doubt, I am discussing specific view points and actions, not individuals. Expressing such expression is consistent with FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines.
I get that many people have a deep seated and irrational hate of a person they don't know and are only exposed to in sound bites. If people want to spend hours of their lives criticizing that person, it's their prerogative. I personally find said behavior irrational and counterproductive. For avoidance of doubt, I am discussing specific view points and actions, not individuals. Expressing such expression is consistent with FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines.
There wasn't some complex context to this speech, it's really not that hard to draw a line from dot-to-dot, most of us learned to do that in preschool.
I can only speak for myself, I've no doubt at all the Smisek is a very intelligent man. But, I do challenge any CEO who would impugn the intelligence of their customers, that seems counterproductive to me.
Last edited by transportbiz; Jul 31, 2015 at 10:25 am
Jul 31, 2015, 10:08 am
#64
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For the most part CEO's, and their companies do not have a noticeable or day to day impact on the general public but airline CEOs do. The decisions Smisek is the face of have an impact on everyone who connects to the airline; for better or worse.
Jul 31, 2015, 10:10 am
#65
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Drawing conclusions from two brief, out of context quotes is not consistent with what you're describing.
I get that many people have a deep seated and irrational hate of a person they don't know and are only exposed to in sound bites. If people want to spend hours of their lives criticizing that person, it's their prerogative. I personally find said behavior irrational and counterproductive. For avoidance of doubt, I am discussing specific view points and actions, not individuals. Expressing such expression is consistent with FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines.
I get that many people have a deep seated and irrational hate of a person they don't know and are only exposed to in sound bites. If people want to spend hours of their lives criticizing that person, it's their prerogative. I personally find said behavior irrational and counterproductive. For avoidance of doubt, I am discussing specific view points and actions, not individuals. Expressing such expression is consistent with FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines.
It's rational to discuss the intent of a CEO's statement. It would be irrational to take action (such as switching to DL) on the basis of two statements. Counterproductive? No. Unproductive? Probably. So is watching the Cubs, but I plan on doing that tonight too.
Last edited by JBord; Jul 31, 2015 at 12:28 pm Reason: grammar
Jul 31, 2015, 11:34 am
#66
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There is a saying in medical research that "unless you wake up in the morning with the humility of realizing that you know less than you thought you did, you are failing"
Jul 31, 2015, 11:42 am
#67
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Drawing conclusions from two brief, out of context quotes is not consistent with what you're describing.
I get that many people have a deep seated and irrational hate of a person they don't know and are only exposed to in sound bites. If people want to spend hours of their lives criticizing that person, it's their prerogative. I personally find said behavior irrational and counterproductive. For avoidance of doubt, I am discussing specific view points and actions, not individuals. Expressing such expression is consistent with FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines.
I get that many people have a deep seated and irrational hate of a person they don't know and are only exposed to in sound bites. If people want to spend hours of their lives criticizing that person, it's their prerogative. I personally find said behavior irrational and counterproductive. For avoidance of doubt, I am discussing specific view points and actions, not individuals. Expressing such expression is consistent with FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines.
Jul 31, 2015, 11:45 am
#68
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Degrees from Ivy League schools are the way to get a top job, not necessarily succeed at or keep a top job. There are plenty of very smart people there, but I also happen to personally know a few who just worked really hard, but aren't any more intelligent than the rest of us rubes.
Last edited by JBord; Jul 31, 2015 at 11:46 am Reason: grammar
Jul 31, 2015, 11:56 am
#69
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Don't be too sure...I am a Harvard grad (not a JD...just an MD and PhD) and I taught at Princeton for a couple of years...my experience is that are many book smart types and legacies who attend this level of institution who are failures in the real world. It is common for these grads to believe the "elite institution" hype and develop egos that prevent them from being successful. I can't tell you how many cocksure Ivy and elite grads we have not hired, or terminated for their inability to operate in a normal environment or even more important, the inability to learn something new which may be contrary to their beliefs.
There is a saying in medical research that "unless you wake up in the morning with the humility of realizing that you know less than you thought you did, you are failing"
There is a saying in medical research that "unless you wake up in the morning with the humility of realizing that you know less than you thought you did, you are failing"
Jul 31, 2015, 11:56 am
#70
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You certainly have to know the subject matter to graduate from these elite programs, but "How Not To Be A Jerk" is not part of the curriculum. In fact, harboring contempt and sneering disdain toward all who are below you is kind of a dominant pattern.
Jul 31, 2015, 12:21 pm
#71
Join Date: May 2013
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I don't think I use those words, but I draw conclusions about other people from personal, first-hand experience. I've met Smisek and Anderson in social and business situations. I think that's a bit different then dissecting sound bites.
Jul 31, 2015, 12:25 pm
#72
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I find the quote by Charlie Leocha at the end interesting, and misguided
"Now they're rich," said Charlie Leocha, chairman of consumer advocacy group Travelers United. "They can afford to be nice to us and at least put some competition back into the system."
The reality is corporations are loyal to their stockholders, and employees* (*hopefully). Asking us to be loyal to them, for years on end does not mean they are going to be loyal to us. If you want to get something more then transportation out of an airline either play the stock market or buy the product they are selling -whether that is the cheapest seat in the house or seat 1A - and expect nothing more then what you paid for.
"Now they're rich," said Charlie Leocha, chairman of consumer advocacy group Travelers United. "They can afford to be nice to us and at least put some competition back into the system."
The reality is corporations are loyal to their stockholders, and employees* (*hopefully). Asking us to be loyal to them, for years on end does not mean they are going to be loyal to us. If you want to get something more then transportation out of an airline either play the stock market or buy the product they are selling -whether that is the cheapest seat in the house or seat 1A - and expect nothing more then what you paid for.
Jul 31, 2015, 12:51 pm
#73
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The conclusions about tone and intent are interesting, though not particularly surprising.
I was at the event and thought there was nothing condescending, nasty, or particularly negative. The general point of the remarks people are getting so worked up about is that customer should get used to unbundling, not paying more for less.
I was at the event and thought there was nothing condescending, nasty, or particularly negative. The general point of the remarks people are getting so worked up about is that customer should get used to unbundling, not paying more for less.
Jul 31, 2015, 1:24 pm
#74
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I could buy the unbundling aspect of the claim, if airline ticket prices actually had declined. But over the past 5 years both my business and leisure fares have increased by almost 50%. Thats way more than inflation. The fare increases seem to be driven by reduced capacity. Planes are fuller now then 5 years ago and oil is now significantly cheaper. Would have loved to see what the Big 3 balance sheets looked like if oil was still hovering around $100/barrel instead of the $50-60 its been.
However, I'm not willing to give him slack when he speaks in public and does so in such a tone deaf manner. As someone posted upthread, it's not just one or two sound bites, we have four years of listening to him on pre flight announcements, quarterly meetings and other public venues where he voluntarily puts himself under the microscope. As another poster upthread noted, some of the most technically accomplished CEOs were their own worst enemy once they started speaking to their customers and workforce. Smisek seems to be one of them.
Jul 31, 2015, 1:39 pm
#75
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flying out of SNA...i find that WN is either the same price or lower than UA. granted, i'm plat. but i have no problem picking WN for SFO or DEN.
jeffy's attitude does wear on the employees. i know a few of them. who would have thought we would rather have tilton?
jeffy's attitude does wear on the employees. i know a few of them. who would have thought we would rather have tilton?