transportbiz

Is all he is saying about GF being a money loser is that if you can't do it right, then it's not competitive. It's the same thought process he is applying to the rest of his business. If you can't be on time without sacrificing profits, why bother being on time? Never mind others seem to do it. Or, perhaps Delta also has unfair subsidies and can have timely operations and still make money...hum, sounds like another phony white paper idea.

Kacee

This management blames the customers when it can't sell its product. "Why would you not want to fly such a flyer friendly airline?"

transportbiz

Even beyond that, they think the customer is stupid if they don't see the "value" of the "product" United offers. And even more stupid if they do

artvandalay

It's interesting that the captain of this ship who's convinced that first class is a loser also feels the same way about HVFs... not worth committing resources to maintain, much less attract. Amazingly, he feels confident about UA's future without either of them. Time will tell.

spin88

To repeat a story I have told before, several years ago I was in GF SFO-PEK, Asian Businessman asks for a cup of espresso. FA apologizes for fact they don't have it, offers to bring him coffee. He is clearly not happy, she brings it to him, and he takes one sip, says it is the worst coffee he has ever had, asks if its been cooking on the pot. FA apologetically says "well we have a new coffee, and we have gotten a number of complaints, I'll try making a new pot" She comes back 5 minutes later, guy says the coffee is just as bad and then says "I can't believe that I pay $15,000 for my ticket and you guys serve me this swill."

GF had issues before Jeff took over, but he has certainly done at he could to destroy any remaining brand value. What has happened is that those who have expereinced OALs have left, and not just those buying GF, but those paying for J, and many of those paying good $$$ for Y.

minnyfly

It's simple math as to why first class is going away. Marginalize the revenue. Think of the cabin area in square inches. You want to maximize revenue per square inch. The added space of a first class seat is X%. Not enough customers aren't willing to pay X% or X+% more for that seat. Then you have the additional soft product cost to boot. J is too good these days. Jeff and UA are running their business wisely by phasing out F.

archcreate

Just wondering here about the BBT article and our "affection" for Mr. Smisek. Folks who have had issues complain much more than folks who have had good service will write in to compliment.
Just reading this train of comments (Like most others) there is just no one out there defending SMI/J. None, zippo. At best posters will defend one point out of ten made by El Jefe.
When will the United Board of Directors begin to see the light and replace him with someone who is creative and can rally the employees instead of following Delta's every move?
Yes United is making a ton of money right now due to low oil prices and constrained capacity, but the competitors are all rising faster.
I've made Gold for the year, perhaps will get up to Platinum, but while it isn't a terrible airline, it's not very well managed and there simply is no incentive to fly United for me anymore. I used to get 28,000 miles on a RT to MNL and now get 6,000, that's an almost 80% reduction with one move on March 1st.

AlreadyThere

IMO, there IS a place for GF, although not what Mr. Smisek expects of it. As anyone knows who flies F on other intl carriers, it's a whole level beyond J, in terms of food, service, and (on A380 suite-type airlines) hard product. For this, a sizable premium is charged beyond J, which picks up a market used to such luxuries and not worried about price.

UA GF however is a somewhat better seat than BF, plus soup. I'll pay somewhat more for it (although nowhere near what I'd pay for, say, LH or CX F), and I enjoy being able to upgrade into it. I'd say a good analogy is that GF is to BF what Premium Economy on BA or QF is to Y. I'm really glad it's there, and it's part of the value proposition I get for being a HVF for UA, but it's not the same animal as those other intl Fs. And since UA doesn't invest much more into the GF soft product, its cost must also be less than the real intl Fs.

So GF fills an important niche, and I'll miss it when it's gone. When that happens, my overseas flying patterns will probably be affected. I'll probably have to pony up for real F on a number of routes.

transportbiz

When ever I see things like this I ask, then why do OAL's do it? How does ANA manage it, or Air China, or I don't know 30 some odd airlines? Are they all subsidized? It's an interesting question, because Delta dropped International First years ago. Continental was the first to drop IF in favor of an "enhanced" Business class product they dubbed "BusinessFirst". NWA followed with World Business Class (aligned with KLM) and then Delta introduced BusinessElite, which was their branding till DeltaOne introduced this year. AA is the last of the US airlines to keep IF product, will be curious how that goes.

fastair

What's the point in paying the required PGBC insurance premium if you refuse to cash in your policy? When your house burns down, if you pay premiums to a mutual insurance company, you burden the other people paying into it, right? But God forbid you pay pension insurance and use that benefit. I lost mine, but it wasn't a subsidy, it was part of the policy back then. They had good lawyers and ERISA experts.

rmadisonwi

I know how much people hate Smisek, but what did he have to do with UA's pensions?

boss315

excuse me while I barf...

Alpha Golf

Jeffie dropping the "subsidy" slur when his company dumped billions in liabilities onto the taxpayer and walked away.

Was before the merger, but pretty sure he's aware of it.

3Cforme

Off-topic here but... You don't understand the funding of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. It's not taxpayer funded.

Billiken

Raises hand.....

If GF goes away, how are U.S.-based non-revs going to get home from vacation?