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United takes $30,000,000 stake in biofuel innovator

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United takes $30,000,000 stake in biofuel innovator

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Old Jun 30, 2015, 6:31 am
  #1  
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United takes $30,000,000 stake in biofuel innovator

United Continental takes stake in biofuel innovator
http://www.seekingalpha.com/news/2606315

http://filecache.drivetheweb.com/mr5...ic_Fulcrum.jpg
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 7:23 am
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I prefer the NYT's title.

Farm Waste and Animal Fats Will Help Power a United Jet

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Old Jun 30, 2015, 7:47 am
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UA buys into alternative fuel; DL bought an oil refinery. I'm not versed in the energy industry to speculate how practical/profitable/sustainable this actually is, but I recognize the pattern of UA copying DL for the umpteenth time, and again.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 7:59 am
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Originally Posted by sinoflyer
UA buys into alternative fuel; DL bought an oil refinery. I'm not versed in the energy industry to speculate how practical/profitable/sustainable this actually is, but I recognize the pattern of UA copying DL for the umpteenth time, and again.
To be fair, I will give UA credit for looking at more sustainable sources of fuel.
This is different and to some extent perhaps a bit innovative.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:06 am
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Originally Posted by sinoflyer
UA buys into alternative fuel; DL bought an oil refinery. I'm not versed in the energy industry to speculate how practical/profitable/sustainable this actually is, but I recognize the pattern of UA copying DL for the umpteenth time, and again.
Airline investment in alternative fuels and energy assets is hardly a novel (or unique-to-DL) strategy.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:08 am
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Originally Posted by ACVBear
To be fair, I will give UA credit for looking at more sustainable sources of fuel.
This is different and to some extent perhaps a bit innovative.
Don't forget speculative.

Alternative fuels sometimes turn out to be more expensive to produce or don't get the volume demand it takes to become cost efficient.

This is not about sustainability, it's about finding a lower cost fuel as this is a huge expense for an airline. F you want to give UA credit, it should be for seeking ways to lower costs.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:10 am
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Originally Posted by ACVBear
To be fair, I will give UA credit for looking at more sustainable sources of fuel.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by EWR764
Airline investment in alternative fuels and energy assets is hardly a novel (or unique-to-DL) strategy.
I only know of airlines having committed to buy/use certain amounts of alt fuels. Taking (partial) ownership in an alt fuel company is new, I believe.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:28 am
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Originally Posted by sinoflyer
I only know of airlines having committed to buy/use certain amounts of alt fuels. Taking (partial) ownership in an alt fuel company is new, I believe.
In terms of an ownership interest, there have been a few. Cathay Pacific has been an investor in Fulcrum since 2014. Qatar Airways has held an interest in Byogy since 2012. I know Virgin has been mentioned as an investor in some biofuel companies but I am not sure if any deals have been consummated, at least beyond the relatively standard "partnerships" to test and buy biofuel blends.

It is an interesting play, as the biofuel sector has certainly taken a hit lately with low oil prices. Seems to me that it could turn out to be a rather shrewd long-term buy low/sell high opportunity.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:37 am
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Originally Posted by JBord
Don't forget speculative.

Alternative fuels sometimes turn out to be more expensive to produce or don't get the volume demand it takes to become cost efficient.

This is not about sustainability, it's about finding a lower cost fuel as this is a huge expense for an airline. F you want to give UA credit, it should be for seeking ways to lower costs.
fair enough. well at least in that respect it is a more forward thinking way of lowering costs than, say, splitting cashews into 1/4s
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:41 am
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sounds just as good as E85 Ethanol for our vehicles!!!!...........oh wait.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:54 am
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Originally Posted by ACVBear
fair enough. well at least in that respect it is a more forward thinking way of lowering costs than, say, splitting cashews into 1/4s
LOL...no one can disagree with that statement!

I do applaud any company that looks for big ways to reduce cost, rather than a million small cuts, without impacting their product quality or price. It takes guts (or maybe $30M) to do that. If that works, this will be a good move.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:56 am
  #12  
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I can certainly understand the rationale, but I'm never convinced by vertical integration, especially when it comes to airlines. Generally, they seem to get outside their areas of expertise quite quickly (and park the thoughts about whether there any in the first place).

I remember when Pan Am decided to get into hotels - arguably they should instead have got out of airplanes - but it all ended badly. Likewise catering operations, booking systems etc. Generally external providers seem to do a better job. And there's almost no synergy possible with only a minority stake.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:00 am
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Originally Posted by lhrsfo
Generally external providers seem to do a better job. And there's almost no synergy possible with only a minority stake.
Agreed. Could be an opportunity to obtain the product at preferential rate, and a long-term investment with an eye toward unloading it at a profit, if the company is viewed to be at a depressed value currently. Jet-A won't be this cheap forever...
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:01 am
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Originally Posted by JBord
I do applaud any company that looks for big ways to reduce cost, rather than a million small cuts, without impacting their product quality or price.
I don't think there is any more they can cut out of the product quality . I hope this works out of UA, if not it's going to be a big write off and a step in the wrong direction. DL took a far smaller risk in their refinery purchase....they invested in the present not the future.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:05 am
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Originally Posted by lhrsfo
I can certainly understand the rationale, but I'm never convinced by vertical integration, especially when it comes to airlines. Generally, they seem to get outside their areas of expertise quite quickly (and park the thoughts about whether there any in the first place).

I remember when Pan Am decided to get into hotels - arguably they should instead have got out of airplanes - but it all ended badly. Likewise catering operations, booking systems etc. Generally external providers seem to do a better job. And there's almost no synergy possible with only a minority stake.
Don't forget the 'points' business. This could arguably be the one good non-flying business airlines have gotten into, and probably has helped sustain the industry in bad times.
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