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Any UA pilots or mechanics on FT: why so many MX this year?

Any UA pilots or mechanics on FT: why so many MX this year?

Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:12 am
  #31  
 
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The fact that United's operation has completely fallen apart in the last few weeks is the result of a confluence of factors, all of which are discussed in this thread. Ignoring the labor discontent is as silly as suggesting that the sole causal factor is management's "80% mandate".

It's a perfect storm, of sorts (and yeah, I guess weather has to factor in there somewhat, too, but there is enough intrinsically wrong with United lately that it would still be an industry laggard in a month of perfect weather days).
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:23 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by EWR764
The fact that United's operation has completely fallen apart in the last few weeks is the result of a confluence of factors, all of which are discussed in this thread. Ignoring the labor discontent is as silly as suggesting that the sole causal factor is management's "80% mandate".
The high number of RTG (return to gate) delays / cancellations, and board / deboard / cancel reports, seem to indicate -- circumstantially -- that aircraft are being delivered to the line allegedly ready to fly, but flight crews discover issues during preflight or taxi which demonstrate otherwise. That does not seem to point to a mechanics' slowdown. That seems like a labor force that does not have enough time to keep the fleet airworthy given the demands of the schedule.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:36 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by EWR764
The fact that United's operation has completely fallen apart in the last few weeks is the result of a confluence of factors, all of which are discussed in this thread. Ignoring the labor discontent is as silly as suggesting that the sole causal factor is management's "80% mandate".
Most sensible statement in this thread.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:40 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by BearX220
The high number of RTG (return to gate) delays / cancellations, and board / deboard / cancel reports, seem to indicate -- circumstantially -- that aircraft are being delivered to the line allegedly ready to fly, but flight crews discover issues during preflight or taxi which demonstrate otherwise. That does not seem to point to a mechanics' slowdown. That seems like a labor force that does not have enough time to keep the fleet airworthy given the demands of the schedule.
Or is it an issue where, under normal circumstances, the returns may be caused items that can be MEL'd, deferred or quick-fixed (with a little hustle), and now these warts are being treated as tumors, therefore leading to a higher-than-usual cancellation rate? Combine that with the fact that the company and pilots could not agree on a proposal to relax contractual duty time rules (for more pay) closer to FAA minimums to address this very situation and you have some of the key ingredients for a crew time-out.

I'm not a pilot nor do I work for the company, but anecdotally, I hear of that sort of thing happening too.

Last edited by EWR764; Jun 30, 2015 at 9:46 am
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 8:58 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by EWR764
Or is it an issue where, under normal circumstances, the returns may be caused items that can be MEL'd, deferred or quick-fixed (with a little hustle), and now these warts are being treated as tumors, therefore leading to a higher-than-usual cancellation rate? Combine that with the fact that the company and pilots could not agree on a proposal to relax contractual duty time rules (for more pay) closer to FAA minimums to address this very situation and you have some of the key the ingredients for a crew time-out.

I'm not a pilot nor do I work for the company, but anecdotally, I hear of that sort of thing happening too.
I was thinking along the same lines of Bearx220 that the number of RTG scenarios doesn't quite fit with a labor action by the mechanics.

I think the point being made was if the mechanics were causing the issue, the planes would not be pushing from the gate. Seems the issues are being discovered after the plane has been "accepted" as ready-to-fly by the pilots.

As mentioned above, more likely a confluence of factors all having impact during the high summer travel season. Understaffed, unrealistic re-banking, low morale, not accepting overtime, cost cutting, and on and on and on.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:01 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by NewportGuy
Does United ever address these numbers in the quarterly announcements? Isn't there one coming up now that second quarter is ending?
There will be a call toward the end of July (date not yet announced).

If there are not comments in management's prepared remarks, I'm sure there will be pointed questions from analysts about recent operating performance.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:11 am
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by goodeats21
I was thinking along the same lines of Bearx220 that the number of RTG scenarios doesn't quite fit with a labor action by the mechanics.

I think the point being made was if the mechanics were causing the issue, the planes would not be pushing from the gate. Seems the issues are being discovered after the plane has been "accepted" as ready-to-fly by the pilots.
I think it's a sort of simplistic view of operations, and assumes that all potential maintenance defects or issues are discovered and cured prior to pushback. Further, it assumes that most, if not all, return to gate scenarios result in lengthy delays, outright cancellations or crew time-outs under "normal" circumstances. That's just not the case.

I am in complete agreement that staffing, the aggressive flex-up of the schedule and perhaps unrealistic expectations for the current fleet composition in terms of utilization are all causal factors here. But trying to explain away reasonable evidence and discussion of what appears to be a thinly-veiled mechanic job action, as if things are business-as-usual on that side of the house, is somewhat ignorant of reality.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:12 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by EWR764
Or is it an issue where, under normal circumstances, the returns may be caused items that can be MEL'd, deferred or quick-fixed (with a little hustle), and now these warts are being treated as tumors, therefore leading to a higher-than-usual cancellation rate?
It could be. It could also be that many things that ought to be fixed are being deferred until they erupt into things that inhibit operations, often at outstations where it's hard to address them on the run, during a tight turn.

Point is, I don't know if pilots or mechanics are conspiring to mess things up, or if the disconnect is stark enough between maintenance needs and the schedule management insists on flying to wreck things without help from the employees.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 9:32 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764
Or is it an issue where, under normal circumstances, the returns may be caused items that can be MEL'd, deferred or quick-fixed (with a little hustle), and now these warts are being treated as tumors, therefore leading to a higher-than-usual cancellation rate? Combine that with the fact that the company and pilots could not agree on a proposal to relax contractual duty time rules (for more pay) closer to FAA minimums to address this very situation and you have some of the key the ingredients for a crew time-out.

I'm not a pilot nor do I work for the company, but anecdotally, I hear of that sort of thing happening too.
Bingo..the wrong UA labor faction is being criticized for "work to rule" behavior..from a letter sent by MEC to all pilots in late March after they rejected the LOA from UA management.

"Until such time as the company is willing to address their deficiencies in honoring our contract, the MEC will no longer entertain overtures from management to fix their operational problems"
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 11:10 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by luckypierre
Bingo..the wrong UA labor faction is being criticized for "work to rule" behavior..from a letter sent by MEC to all pilots in late March after they rejected the LOA from UA management.

"Until such time as the company is willing to address their deficiencies in honoring our contract, the MEC will no longer entertain overtures from management to fix their operational problems"
Sounds reasonable to me. Management has the opportunity to encourage us to accept relaxed rules, but they would have to honor our current contract the same as us.

FAB
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 11:28 am
  #41  
 
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Given the nature of the airline industry, I'm surprised that there aren't more delays. Think about just how much could go wrong with airplanes, some of the most costly and complicated pieces of machinery ever to exist.

As for DL's "no canceled flights" goal, it may be nice that it does happen on certain days, but it's just not going to happen for the same reason as my first sentence: too many variables that could go awry.

The days of ham-carved-in-front-of-you, your tray having porcelain dishes on it, and being able to check 3 free bags in economy are long gone, and are never coming back.

-LPDAL
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 11:33 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by LPDAL
As for DL's "no canceled flights" goal, it may be nice that it does happen on certain days, but it's just not going to happen for the same reason as my first sentence: too many variables that could go awry.
How come DL is better able to control said variables than UA then?
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 11:35 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
How come DL is better able to control said variables than UA then?
Delta isn't United.

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Old Jun 30, 2015, 11:51 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by LPDAL
Delta isn't United.

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And it's not AA. While enduring a 5-hour delay due to mechanical problems in Houston and LAX on same plane (eventually switched to another gate/aircraft), I wandered through tunnel to LAX T5 and T4. While UA departure screens were littered with afternoon and evening delays and cancellations, DL and AA screens were showing a very high percentage of on times.

Side note - DL T5 is really nice (for LAX). AA T4 is dark, narrow, low ceilings - must be AA's version of UA's IAD. My feeling is UA's T7 will be nicer than T4 at end of reservations, but AA may still be operationally better. The T6 renovation is coming along nicely - big Starbucks and a sundry store where Jody Maroni's used to be.
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Old Jun 30, 2015, 11:59 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
And it's not AA.
^

I've researched the US3's respective corporate cultures, and they're all very different. As are their respective procedures and OpSpecs.

Anecdotal evidence does nothing to convince me. If Delta, or American, or JetBlue, or Frontier, or Emirates etc. etc. etc..... are better than United as claimed and are readily accessible, why are people still supplying United with their hard - earned money instead of Delta [or whoever] hoping something will miraculously be different at the airport? If Delta is so much better, fly Delta?

Albert Einstein's Definition of Insanity - The Quotations Page

-LPDAL

Last edited by LPDAL; Jun 30, 2015 at 12:09 pm
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